You’re spot-on Mike. Naval does indeed have some pithy & useful aphorisms on status & wealth. Things we semi-evolved primates get obsessed with. But he got weird & self absorbed when he, and others, started taking his other musings too seriously. Yet again, money gets erroneously equated with wisdom. As for Naval’s thoughts on democracy being mob rule, sounds like he’s fallen under the spell of another dime-store Buddha whose ass you kicked in a recent debate - Curtis Yarvin. Fuck both of them. Cracks me up when folks who fancy themselves smart out-source their ideologies & thought processes to someone else.
Naval is a midwit’s guru, pronouncing aphorisms *almost* as erudite as Nassim Taleb’s, and possessed of equally thin skin.
I almost went to work for Naval at Angel List back in the day until a brief convo with Nivi put me off it entirely. Naval blocked me on Twitter soon after. 🤷🏻♀️
No disagreement. What's fascinating is how many people see/saw him as a thought leader, rather than just a tech/finance bro type who got lucky and confused his success for his own brilliance.
A few years ago I read Kochland. A story of a transition of control; from a father, a founder of the John Birch Society, and the founder of his company, Koch Industrries, to his three sons.
It was a tale about the rapid concentration of power over that company by the dominant Brother Charles, about the aspirations of his more politically inclined Brother David, and the vastly less aggressive brother Bill. who was basically just pushed aside. The short summary is: David ran for President as a libertarian and got about 2% of the vote. Charles prospered partly by being very smart and partly by stealing oil from Indian tribes and dumping toxic wast on his neighbors wetlands for a while, and got caught, but not convicted.
The two of them then decided to be more law abiding, and to accomplish the same Radical Libertarian cultural changes they sought in other ways. They began by collaborating with other sympathetic revisionists. changing the law, the courts, and by changing the way Americans think, to create their libertarian replacement for the "US Democratic Republic
The Koch and others 's careful crafted tools to do that: The Heritage Foundation to change what we thought, and as their end game to write the 2025 plan, the Federalist Society to pack the courts, and corruption to change the laws and to further legalize corruption to influence the courts the congress and our elections, and relentless concentration of media ownership.
The Radically Libertarian changes that David couldn't sell when he ran for President. In an un-rigged election, with a diverse less concentrated media, someone was always asking those questions that Brock points to. They got answers back then, and those answers back then, did not look much like the common good to an American Public that were at that time significantly less brainwashed.
Brock describes of how tech billionaires embraced and infected the tech realm with beliefs Their new realm of digital technologies, has gradually fully engaged everyone, maker and user, all day every day, enabling more effective spreading of new compacted beliefs, that appear to both accelerate and augment the goals of the wider realm of ongoing de-regulatory, Libertarian and wealth inequality revisionists, as well as the illegal interests of some illegal agents of foreign powers
This cultural change occurred during a half century, simultaneously with: the Project for a New American Century, and with Lewis Powell's scheme to restore the wealth of America to the Powerful families of the Guilded Age. and Grover Norquiist's efforts to diminish the Federal Government sufficiently to facilitate drowning it in a bathtub. Each of these separately motivated conspiratorial threads shared some common areas of alignment contributing to the destruction of our democracy and the egalitarian inclinations of our American constitutional Republic.
Fixing this could not be more important, and it will require the kind of thorough thoughtful questioning like that Brock shared to find our way and courage and likely some blood to do.
Agreed. You've clearly spelled out the What. As an old guy, I won't be around or committed enough to fight the good fight. So I wonder about the Why. The Why seems universal, and it must be that some humans are broken and need more [whatever] to try and fail to fill their brokenness. Is it really that simple?
We do have a constitutional republic however within it we do have durable forms of direct democracy. Quite a few states have propositions that are voted on directly by the whole electorate. California has one coming up -proposed wealth tax that wealthy elite are furiously spending against. And believe it or not many town meetings persist in New England.
I don’t think there any people I have met who I would note as exceptionally smart who would fall for the brittle ideology you beautifully deconstruct,
You note the that the unquestioned belief resembles a religion. That makes good sense considering that that the Silicon Valley elite and far right Christian Dominionists are Trumps most important constituencies. If their dreams of dominance come true, I would bet that Silicon Valley comes out on top-imposing their utopia.
I do think Peter Thiel has it right that capitalism is not compatible with Democracy. However I think he has backwards. The constitutional we have in no way supports the present iteration of capitalism.
In fact only proto-capitalist right mentioned is an individual right to property. The founders most likely relied on Locke’s mythological and post hoc exposition on a natural right.
Taking the critique a step further. While democracies pervade Europe they are all threatened by the most recent iteration of capitalism. Capitalism with its attendant growth of inequality of wealth and does contradict the central action of democracy which is to diffuse power.The best of the democratic ideals were expressed by the French enlightenment. Capitalism on the other hand was not a product of enlightenment thinking but rather a change in property relations initiated by wealthy property holders ultimately enforced by the government.
It is interesting to note the litany of failures throughout capitalisms history. In tandem with its miracles of development its need to find new resources and markets as well as to protect its ideology has led initiation of 5 wars since WWII. All of them resulting extraordinary loss of life and ending in loss.
A glance at our own economy doesn’t vindicate the idea that a mixed economy can be both effective and durable. The 19th century was riddled with recessions, depressions, bank failures and ended in the impoverishment of the he gilded age.Reaction to extreme inequality tempered worst of Neo classical capitalism. However the twenties ended in crash and depression. FDR instituted some effective cures that were helped by war spending. The post war led to relative prosperity and historic rise of the middle class.
The elite never dropped their battle against the FDR and earlier reforms. By the 1970s they were well on their way to their ultimate victory in the 1980s. And the elite capitalists have governed ever since.
So far history does not demonstrate that a democratically enacted reform program can be a durable defense against the accumulation of capital and power. New reforms will have to be deeper and more consequential if we are preserve our republic.
“Watch out for mobs and communism!” cry the oligarchs funding the fascists. It is indeed 1920’s Germany and Italy, but not the way they say. Does that sum it up?
This is incredibly good. I have a quibble. Are you suggesting that COVID was not really a pandemic? That my two friends and 1M other Americans who died from it were not part of a pandemic? That 15M+ excess deaths worldwide was not a pandemic?
P.S. As a dude with a Computer Science degree, I know the engineers of which you speak. The compression worship framing is perfect. I went into sales :-)
“Depth is the soul of understanding.” The depth of this careful and articulate analysis speaks to my soul that is currently demoralized and feels powerless. So your sustained effort to see clearly (through a glass darkly), pulling the historical threads seeking what is true as tested against the wisdom of the ages is an antidote to despair. Interesting too how the patterns of original insight ( not to be confused with wisdom), establishing a platform, finding an audience, and the subsequent flow of corruption through power, greed and ultimate deceit over the “vulnerable” you present seem to exactly match the trajectory of Christian Nationalism both covered by deniable culpability because a higher power/enlightenment deems it true.
THE PLATFORM FOR THE NEW “AMERICAN CITIZENS PARTY” (ACP)
Unlike the two existing parties, this one will address the enormous changes in our government and our way of life. I listened to the Democratic Party's discussion; is AOC too liberal? What about Bernie? Is he off the charts? Who should they run for president? They must create a platform that appeals to independent voters. Both existing parties are beholden to billionaire donors. ACP is a people's party formed, funded, and controlled by citizens. This will not be a Republican or Democratic party, but a party for those who want this party's platform.
This will not be a micro-change party; it will address mistakes made by our founding fathers and the necessary changes we have observed in our present history. It will be based on securing the defining statement in the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that their Creator endows them with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." This party will be a new, never-tried party in which the platform is developed by the voting public, independent of politicians and money people. This party will be called many things: communist, liberal, progressive, socialist, or any name the wealthy can think of that would hurt this party. I think the No King Walkers will like this new party.
This party has two objectives:
1.) protect the citizens of our country from foreign and internal adversaries
2.) care for the welfare of our citizens by providing public services and a robust social safety net for its citizens.
PLATFORM
• Establish protection against the wealthy from being able to infect this party. The maximum donation would be ten thousand dollars. I think Bernie did that in his presidential bid. No more from anyone or any organization.
• Establish a National Health Plan. More than Bernie's Medicare for all, this plan will provide comprehensive coverage of all medical services for everyone in our country, plus long-term care and nutrition programs for older adults and preschool children. This program would also evaluate medical services throughout the country and build and finance small hospitals in areas with smaller populations. This program will cover all medical needs of our citizens, including mental health, substance abuse, and services for glasses and hearing aids, as well as the cost of assisted living for seniors.
• Promote unions and support unions as a necessary part of our society.
• Increase voters' rights by increasing ways to vote.
• Have paid college for all and establish necessary guidelines for applying to college.
• Support free news stations
• Change the payment schedule in Social Security to an amount that will provide citizens with a reasonable retirement package and allow them to keep all their Social Security.
• Immediately defund and eliminate ICE, making any abuses by its agents illegal and subject to arrest, seizure, and prosecution.
• Remove the Electoral College and elect the president by popular vote.
• Establish a reasonable path to citizenship for all that will allow immigrants to work toward becoming an American citizen.
• Change the function of the Supreme Court, making its responsibility only to review the legality of the states' Supreme Court rulings. Remake the court to have nine judges and an age limit of 75.
• Establish a new way to select Supreme Court judges where we, the citizens, will have input and decision-making powers.
• Allow the House of Representatives to have the power to impeach the president with a majority vote.
• Stop all wars and insist that any aggression has to be approved by Congress by a majority vote.
• Reestablish a woman's right to control her body and have an abortion.
• Reestablish all citizens' protections removed by Trump.
• Protect and improve all our national parks.
• Eliminate all fossil fuel usage.
• Encourage the development of alternative sources of energy
• Increase income from new tax rates
a. Increase the tax rate to that of FDR in 1945 and President Eisenhower, which was 94% and 91% on taxable income of the wealthy
b. Raise the tax on corporations to 52% or higher.
c. Raise the estate tax to 70%
• Eliminate the Senate: The Senate was a bad bargain made by the Northern states to get the Southern states to sign the Constitution. The Senate is a ridiculous arrangement and has been a clog in our progress.
• Guarantee equal rights to all citizens independent of race, religion, or social background.
• Rethink the rules about our president. Trump has shown us the weakness in the definition and powers of the presidency. We should consider a way for the states to control or impeach the president directly.
• Secure freedom of religion.
• Acknowledge climate change and the warning of the world and encourage promoting changes to stop this warming.
• Take care of our natural resources, protecting them from being abused by money people.
• Establish guidelines for creating tariffs.
• Reestablish the national education department.
• Reconnect with our European partners and reaffirm our commitment to NATO.
• Reconnect with Canada and Mexico
• Stop all subsidies to Israel and support Ukraine in its war with Russia.
• Investigate all government employees for receiving financial profit while in office.
This is the first outline of this platform for this party and will not be the last. I think that this party should appeal to all citizens regardless of state or party affiliation. I think that with our new technology, cell phones and emails, we can devise a way for members of this party to vote on major revisions to this platform.
How to organize this party's development is above my pay grade. Still, I hope others with experience in developing this party will step forward to share their knowledge. If 200,000 citizens decide to contribute five dollars to this party, that would give us an operating budget of one billion dollars; that is the power of the citizens.
You’re spot-on Mike. Naval does indeed have some pithy & useful aphorisms on status & wealth. Things we semi-evolved primates get obsessed with. But he got weird & self absorbed when he, and others, started taking his other musings too seriously. Yet again, money gets erroneously equated with wisdom. As for Naval’s thoughts on democracy being mob rule, sounds like he’s fallen under the spell of another dime-store Buddha whose ass you kicked in a recent debate - Curtis Yarvin. Fuck both of them. Cracks me up when folks who fancy themselves smart out-source their ideologies & thought processes to someone else.
Naval is a midwit’s guru, pronouncing aphorisms *almost* as erudite as Nassim Taleb’s, and possessed of equally thin skin.
I almost went to work for Naval at Angel List back in the day until a brief convo with Nivi put me off it entirely. Naval blocked me on Twitter soon after. 🤷🏻♀️
No disagreement. What's fascinating is how many people see/saw him as a thought leader, rather than just a tech/finance bro type who got lucky and confused his success for his own brilliance.
A few years ago I read Kochland. A story of a transition of control; from a father, a founder of the John Birch Society, and the founder of his company, Koch Industrries, to his three sons.
It was a tale about the rapid concentration of power over that company by the dominant Brother Charles, about the aspirations of his more politically inclined Brother David, and the vastly less aggressive brother Bill. who was basically just pushed aside. The short summary is: David ran for President as a libertarian and got about 2% of the vote. Charles prospered partly by being very smart and partly by stealing oil from Indian tribes and dumping toxic wast on his neighbors wetlands for a while, and got caught, but not convicted.
The two of them then decided to be more law abiding, and to accomplish the same Radical Libertarian cultural changes they sought in other ways. They began by collaborating with other sympathetic revisionists. changing the law, the courts, and by changing the way Americans think, to create their libertarian replacement for the "US Democratic Republic
The Koch and others 's careful crafted tools to do that: The Heritage Foundation to change what we thought, and as their end game to write the 2025 plan, the Federalist Society to pack the courts, and corruption to change the laws and to further legalize corruption to influence the courts the congress and our elections, and relentless concentration of media ownership.
The Radically Libertarian changes that David couldn't sell when he ran for President. In an un-rigged election, with a diverse less concentrated media, someone was always asking those questions that Brock points to. They got answers back then, and those answers back then, did not look much like the common good to an American Public that were at that time significantly less brainwashed.
Brock describes of how tech billionaires embraced and infected the tech realm with beliefs Their new realm of digital technologies, has gradually fully engaged everyone, maker and user, all day every day, enabling more effective spreading of new compacted beliefs, that appear to both accelerate and augment the goals of the wider realm of ongoing de-regulatory, Libertarian and wealth inequality revisionists, as well as the illegal interests of some illegal agents of foreign powers
This cultural change occurred during a half century, simultaneously with: the Project for a New American Century, and with Lewis Powell's scheme to restore the wealth of America to the Powerful families of the Guilded Age. and Grover Norquiist's efforts to diminish the Federal Government sufficiently to facilitate drowning it in a bathtub. Each of these separately motivated conspiratorial threads shared some common areas of alignment contributing to the destruction of our democracy and the egalitarian inclinations of our American constitutional Republic.
Fixing this could not be more important, and it will require the kind of thorough thoughtful questioning like that Brock shared to find our way and courage and likely some blood to do.
Agreed. You've clearly spelled out the What. As an old guy, I won't be around or committed enough to fight the good fight. So I wonder about the Why. The Why seems universal, and it must be that some humans are broken and need more [whatever] to try and fail to fill their brokenness. Is it really that simple?
This is a great essay in many ways.
We do have a constitutional republic however within it we do have durable forms of direct democracy. Quite a few states have propositions that are voted on directly by the whole electorate. California has one coming up -proposed wealth tax that wealthy elite are furiously spending against. And believe it or not many town meetings persist in New England.
I don’t think there any people I have met who I would note as exceptionally smart who would fall for the brittle ideology you beautifully deconstruct,
You note the that the unquestioned belief resembles a religion. That makes good sense considering that that the Silicon Valley elite and far right Christian Dominionists are Trumps most important constituencies. If their dreams of dominance come true, I would bet that Silicon Valley comes out on top-imposing their utopia.
I do think Peter Thiel has it right that capitalism is not compatible with Democracy. However I think he has backwards. The constitutional we have in no way supports the present iteration of capitalism.
In fact only proto-capitalist right mentioned is an individual right to property. The founders most likely relied on Locke’s mythological and post hoc exposition on a natural right.
Taking the critique a step further. While democracies pervade Europe they are all threatened by the most recent iteration of capitalism. Capitalism with its attendant growth of inequality of wealth and does contradict the central action of democracy which is to diffuse power.The best of the democratic ideals were expressed by the French enlightenment. Capitalism on the other hand was not a product of enlightenment thinking but rather a change in property relations initiated by wealthy property holders ultimately enforced by the government.
It is interesting to note the litany of failures throughout capitalisms history. In tandem with its miracles of development its need to find new resources and markets as well as to protect its ideology has led initiation of 5 wars since WWII. All of them resulting extraordinary loss of life and ending in loss.
A glance at our own economy doesn’t vindicate the idea that a mixed economy can be both effective and durable. The 19th century was riddled with recessions, depressions, bank failures and ended in the impoverishment of the he gilded age.Reaction to extreme inequality tempered worst of Neo classical capitalism. However the twenties ended in crash and depression. FDR instituted some effective cures that were helped by war spending. The post war led to relative prosperity and historic rise of the middle class.
The elite never dropped their battle against the FDR and earlier reforms. By the 1970s they were well on their way to their ultimate victory in the 1980s. And the elite capitalists have governed ever since.
So far history does not demonstrate that a democratically enacted reform program can be a durable defense against the accumulation of capital and power. New reforms will have to be deeper and more consequential if we are preserve our republic.
Naval is a fraud that speaks in broad generalizations as if it were deep wisdom. What a moron.
“Watch out for mobs and communism!” cry the oligarchs funding the fascists. It is indeed 1920’s Germany and Italy, but not the way they say. Does that sum it up?
the lead NeoStoic, Ryan Holiday, has not pivoted to MAGA
The “mob” that actually threatens the republic isn’t the demos but rather it’s concentrated capital wearing the demos’s constitutional clothing.
Fascinating insights
Believable logic
Thank you!!!
I am a subscriber and a regular reader, and enjoy, and appreciate your writing very, very much.
This is incredibly good. I have a quibble. Are you suggesting that COVID was not really a pandemic? That my two friends and 1M other Americans who died from it were not part of a pandemic? That 15M+ excess deaths worldwide was not a pandemic?
P.S. As a dude with a Computer Science degree, I know the engineers of which you speak. The compression worship framing is perfect. I went into sales :-)
Brilliant, just brilliant. Exactly who they are. Their stated position perfectly defines why we must do domocracy.
“Depth is the soul of understanding.” The depth of this careful and articulate analysis speaks to my soul that is currently demoralized and feels powerless. So your sustained effort to see clearly (through a glass darkly), pulling the historical threads seeking what is true as tested against the wisdom of the ages is an antidote to despair. Interesting too how the patterns of original insight ( not to be confused with wisdom), establishing a platform, finding an audience, and the subsequent flow of corruption through power, greed and ultimate deceit over the “vulnerable” you present seem to exactly match the trajectory of Christian Nationalism both covered by deniable culpability because a higher power/enlightenment deems it true.
THE PLATFORM FOR THE NEW “AMERICAN CITIZENS PARTY” (ACP)
Unlike the two existing parties, this one will address the enormous changes in our government and our way of life. I listened to the Democratic Party's discussion; is AOC too liberal? What about Bernie? Is he off the charts? Who should they run for president? They must create a platform that appeals to independent voters. Both existing parties are beholden to billionaire donors. ACP is a people's party formed, funded, and controlled by citizens. This will not be a Republican or Democratic party, but a party for those who want this party's platform.
This will not be a micro-change party; it will address mistakes made by our founding fathers and the necessary changes we have observed in our present history. It will be based on securing the defining statement in the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that their Creator endows them with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." This party will be a new, never-tried party in which the platform is developed by the voting public, independent of politicians and money people. This party will be called many things: communist, liberal, progressive, socialist, or any name the wealthy can think of that would hurt this party. I think the No King Walkers will like this new party.
This party has two objectives:
1.) protect the citizens of our country from foreign and internal adversaries
2.) care for the welfare of our citizens by providing public services and a robust social safety net for its citizens.
PLATFORM
• Establish protection against the wealthy from being able to infect this party. The maximum donation would be ten thousand dollars. I think Bernie did that in his presidential bid. No more from anyone or any organization.
• Establish a National Health Plan. More than Bernie's Medicare for all, this plan will provide comprehensive coverage of all medical services for everyone in our country, plus long-term care and nutrition programs for older adults and preschool children. This program would also evaluate medical services throughout the country and build and finance small hospitals in areas with smaller populations. This program will cover all medical needs of our citizens, including mental health, substance abuse, and services for glasses and hearing aids, as well as the cost of assisted living for seniors.
• Promote unions and support unions as a necessary part of our society.
• Increase voters' rights by increasing ways to vote.
• Have paid college for all and establish necessary guidelines for applying to college.
• Support free news stations
• Change the payment schedule in Social Security to an amount that will provide citizens with a reasonable retirement package and allow them to keep all their Social Security.
• Immediately defund and eliminate ICE, making any abuses by its agents illegal and subject to arrest, seizure, and prosecution.
• Remove the Electoral College and elect the president by popular vote.
• Establish a reasonable path to citizenship for all that will allow immigrants to work toward becoming an American citizen.
• Change the function of the Supreme Court, making its responsibility only to review the legality of the states' Supreme Court rulings. Remake the court to have nine judges and an age limit of 75.
• Establish a new way to select Supreme Court judges where we, the citizens, will have input and decision-making powers.
• Allow the House of Representatives to have the power to impeach the president with a majority vote.
• Stop all wars and insist that any aggression has to be approved by Congress by a majority vote.
• Reestablish a woman's right to control her body and have an abortion.
• Reestablish all citizens' protections removed by Trump.
• Protect and improve all our national parks.
• Eliminate all fossil fuel usage.
• Encourage the development of alternative sources of energy
• Increase income from new tax rates
a. Increase the tax rate to that of FDR in 1945 and President Eisenhower, which was 94% and 91% on taxable income of the wealthy
b. Raise the tax on corporations to 52% or higher.
c. Raise the estate tax to 70%
• Eliminate the Senate: The Senate was a bad bargain made by the Northern states to get the Southern states to sign the Constitution. The Senate is a ridiculous arrangement and has been a clog in our progress.
• Guarantee equal rights to all citizens independent of race, religion, or social background.
• Rethink the rules about our president. Trump has shown us the weakness in the definition and powers of the presidency. We should consider a way for the states to control or impeach the president directly.
• Secure freedom of religion.
• Acknowledge climate change and the warning of the world and encourage promoting changes to stop this warming.
• Take care of our natural resources, protecting them from being abused by money people.
• Establish guidelines for creating tariffs.
• Reestablish the national education department.
• Reconnect with our European partners and reaffirm our commitment to NATO.
• Reconnect with Canada and Mexico
• Stop all subsidies to Israel and support Ukraine in its war with Russia.
• Investigate all government employees for receiving financial profit while in office.
This is the first outline of this platform for this party and will not be the last. I think that this party should appeal to all citizens regardless of state or party affiliation. I think that with our new technology, cell phones and emails, we can devise a way for members of this party to vote on major revisions to this platform.
How to organize this party's development is above my pay grade. Still, I hope others with experience in developing this party will step forward to share their knowledge. If 200,000 citizens decide to contribute five dollars to this party, that would give us an operating budget of one billion dollars; that is the power of the citizens.