Of course, the Black Panthers brought guns to the Assembly to make a point about racism and the 2A - not entirely unlike the folks who carry in a Starbucks. They were also providing basic assistance and child care to their community. And yes, it was a crazy time.
I never really got the appeal of Harris. Maybe a gender thing. At this point though he is pretty much a has been. He is too old for the young crowd and his prior audience has aged and mostly could care less what he babbles. He also couldn't seem to pick sides for awhile which probably hurt. He must have a book coming out or podcast numbers dropping. I think we pay too little attention to Horowitz. Not everyone came across his machine in college. I did. So did Miller [though years after I did and I think Miller did in high school].
Thank you for making Sam Harris relevant to me, by describing so carefully his most annoying rhetorical argumentation. I’ve never talked with him in person, but the disagreements I’ve had with some of his positions always came down to his not taking the opposing side as a serious, evidenced stand and imputing motives not in evidence. I thought he just liked battling straw men, but you make clear he has a deeper reason for his ventures into, frankly, hysterical denunciation.
You're over thinking it. If America can vote for a pussy-grabbing ex-casino owner who got famous hosting a game business game show on TV, they can vote for anyone.
You’re not wrong, of course. But people tend to have very strong theories—as Harris does here—about why Americans would prefer a fascist to Mamdani in 2028. Which is—more or less—EXACTLY what he said.
I'd suggest that there is no such thing, generally speaking. What you are seeing is competence, which you can compare to the assembled might of the US government, DoJ, and Military, as well as many other things to judge how "ordinary" it is.
Not being versed in the history of Harris, I lack your forbearance. To me he is simply a racist. I live in the second largest city in the UK, Birmingham, which is 53% non-white. So far eradication has escaped us white people. I'm not saying thete are no problems, there are always problems where enough people congregate, but we're OK, thanks. I suspect the likes of Elon Musk and co. don't realise how culturally different we are to America. Tommy Robinson turned up here and was kettled by the cops and the locals. Because he's a racist dick. And however long Musk rails at the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, it will make no difference, because he's been a great Mayor. We tend to prefer facts for the most part.
This was an expert and genteel take down. I never listened to Harris because I was told more than once that he was what we used to call a bigot and had especially irrational,virulent views about Muslims.
I am not sure about the specifics of his views on Israel, however if they include supporting the ongoing annihilation of Gaza then in my opinion there are stronger words that would apply to him.
.
A note on Mike’s love of Hitchens.
I found Hitchens to be a regrettable personality who should be deeply and unconditionally condemned for his support for the Iraq invasion and long war. It seems that he was viewed by some as a courageous thinker who bravely critiqued his own tribe.No doubt he had some otherworldly skills. However his views always seemed cramped by his personality.Rarely insightful.
Even if he was a bolt of fresh lightening at all other times, he should be judged by his exceptionally cowardly endorsement of the Iraq war. Most serious people knew that Bush,Cheney and the CIA were lying.
And opposition ran high until almost the whole congress capitulated.The many years of conflict,the great loss of life and the long instability were all predictable. That war is moral stain and Hitchen’s culpability should be durable. He had voice and following. In this case he used it thoughtlessly.
Bush and his enablers were guilty of crimes and should have been held responsible.
Muhammad was the only leader of a major world religion who was also a businessman. It’s rather ironic that this religion has now been conflated with socialism in many people’s minds.
what you call the petrodollar club (I assume you mean the countries who have oil and are run by Muslim Theocracies) has never claimed to be socialist. This is a label applied to some liberal American Muslims by people who hate them.
And many of these oil rich theocracies are socialist in that their citizens are paid a stipend from the wealth funds (not aware of the exact distribution networks) and there isn’t much work to be done beyond that done by their used and abused Asian immigrants. Some doctors and businessmen work, of course. Government Bureaucrats. Engineers tho many of these are imported by the oil companies. Lots of nepotism.
A system that only gives money to members of a certain family group is the opposite of socialism. You get something closer to socialism in heavily Republican Alaska, which gives income from its oil to every Alaskan citizen, regardless of tribal affiliation.
I never said they give only money to relatives but the closer one is to the throne the more wealthy one is likely to be. And in some of the smaller states almost everyone is a relative to one degree or another, by marriage etc. The Family aspect of socialism is why some say it works in the Nordic states where almost everyone historically (pre mass immigration) descended from Ragnar one way or the other.
You have no way to know that. Thanks to citizens united. He definitely received lots of max donations from people with Arabic or Muslim names from out of state.
very nice, thoughtful article, extremely well documented. But I must add the somewhat nerdy comment that the concept of taqiyyah predates the Shia/Suni schism. Because Muhammad taught that lying was wrong, he was asked whether it was OK to deny one’s faith if acknowledging it could lead to torture or death. Muhammad answered in the affirmative. This position is essentially identical to the common sense view that it is OK to lie if the Nazis ask you whether you have Jews in the cellar.
"Which is why the pattern on Mamdani and El-Sayed is a real deviation, not a generalized failure. Harris has the method. He knows how to use it. He uses it on Piker and reaches a defensible conclusion on Piker."
Mike -- maybe it's only a deviation if you're looking at the wrong dimension.
Maybe in the Cheech and Chong dog-shit dimension (looks like it, tastes like it....), Harris's blanket anti-Isalm views have a name: racism. Why not use it?
I share Harris' secularism and read all of the Four Horsemen, but at least two of them suffered a derangement (literally, their views in one dimension were no longer in their normal range) in response to 9/11.
I think you underestimate the ordinary individual’s talent for compartmentalization in service of ignoring whatever cognitive dissonance might otherwise disrupt one’s emotional or intellectual equilibrium.
Regarding Mamdani, his administration did revoke its use of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, he continues to use inflammatory language around Israel — invoking the ridiculous genocide canard when Gaza’s population has increased since 10/7/23. As to his wife’s explicit rejoicing about that day discovered in her social media feeds, he only pointed out that she is a private citizen. Excellent swerve, sir!
Seeing how quickly formerly modern societies devolved to the worst forms of barbarism
under the banners of Islam in Afghanistan and Iran, some are understandably wary about the increasing Muslim influence in the western world. Following the money, often this influence can be sourced back to the Muslim brotherhood and thus may align with its nefarious goals of a worldwide caliphate with no civil rights for minorities or women or anyone not Muslim. Qatar is a prime funder of the Muslim brotherhood as is Turkey also a major supporter and adherent.
Michigan’s Rashida Tlaib theoretically empathized with “any” victims of sexual assault on 10/7/23. Many Israelis theoretically empathize with “any” innocent Gazans. I am sure Harris would be willing to debate “any” honest broker of the Israel-Palestine quandaries if any could be found who have not already been fed a steady stream of Al-Jazeera Muslim brotherhood propaganda masquerading as the main stream media consensus on Gaza, not so different from the views on the left like the DSA who has made the elimination of the Zionist entity part of their party platform. Great way to rally the hoi polloi, as it has been for millennia.
This is a thoughtful and fair analysis of both Sam Harris and his fear of what we might call Trojan Horse delivery systems of hateful ideology.
As you say, I believe Sam Harris is generally honest, sincere, and has very strong moral and intellectual beliefs. I think it is preposterous to believe he is anybody's shill. But like any other human being, even the most ethical and wise, he has blind spots and prejudices. You have called him out on those in a very fair, intellectually honest way. Hard to do, and well done.
What I would add is this: show me anyone who does not share that fault. Harris is an atheist, but his heritage is Jewish. Jews know that Jew murder and genocide are not fantasies; they happen with hideous regularity, and the precipitous rise in antisemitism around the world should be disturbing to any Jew, practicing or not. Harris may insist that his views on Islam and Israel are wholly logical, and I think he believes that. But this doesn't hold up, as you have so cogently argued.
What seems more likely is that this is an unexamined emotional reaction that has been intellectualized. This is not rare. We all are mostly blind to our subconscious rationalizations, especially those connected to fear.
Rather than dismiss Harris as a bigot, we should recognize this as an emotional response, not as a sign of either dishonesty or bad faith. Muslims who reflexively mistrust Jews, Whites who reflexively mistrust Blacks, Blacks who reflexively mistrust Whites all share that failing. Let he who is without this sin cast the first stone.
I have enjoyed listening to and reading Sam Harris for a long time, almost 20 years. I cancelled my Making Sense subscription because I did not like the QandA format he started and he stopped doing his wonderful rants in which he just read an essay. I loved the one he did on RFK Jr. for instance,. He tore his anti-vaccine position to pieces. Those rants became fewer. He invited his audience to ask questions, but he never answered some questions I posed. I asked over and over again about his advice on coping with Trump/far right people in the family or in friendships. I have lost a lot of friends and I look up to Sam but crickets...He disclosed a couple of times that he once was friends with Elon Musk and I thought, okay, maybe he'll give some practical advice on how to cope. I mean he is also a meditation teacher of sorts. I use his Waking Up, app, too. Well, over and over again, my question was never answered. I also asked why he disliked Kamala Harris so much. And why "wokeness" was such a problem. Nothing. And I also got tired of his defending Israel. I'm not an anti-semite in the least, but the situation in Israel is getting obviously awful and I just said, enough. But your analysis, Mike, of how Harris is "off" is nice to read. AND you also discussed AT LENGTH how you lost a friend and how it was okay to lose that friend. You did it with thoroughness and dignity and with a lot of consideration and sensitivity. It was not so much advice for someone like me (and a lot of others) who have lost friends and family to the far right, but it was, as you said, a "misery loves company" essay. You KNOW how we feel. I did not get that from Sam Harris. Not once did he think it important enough to talk about. I felt like he was name dropping. "I was friends with Elon Musk, the richest man alive, and now I'm not because he's crazy." But there was never a, "I bet you, too, members of my Making Sense club, have lost friends and I feel bad for you and here's a few pointers." Nothing like that. Of course, I know that Making Sense is not therapy. But people look up to him and even a few token words of advice might help. You, Mike, did that in your wonderful piece on losing a friend. Thank you. I really, really mean it.
Of course, the Black Panthers brought guns to the Assembly to make a point about racism and the 2A - not entirely unlike the folks who carry in a Starbucks. They were also providing basic assistance and child care to their community. And yes, it was a crazy time.
I never really got the appeal of Harris. Maybe a gender thing. At this point though he is pretty much a has been. He is too old for the young crowd and his prior audience has aged and mostly could care less what he babbles. He also couldn't seem to pick sides for awhile which probably hurt. He must have a book coming out or podcast numbers dropping. I think we pay too little attention to Horowitz. Not everyone came across his machine in college. I did. So did Miller [though years after I did and I think Miller did in high school].
Thank you Mike. Both for your awesome intellect and writing skills. But also the humanity you expose in all your communication.
Thank you for making Sam Harris relevant to me, by describing so carefully his most annoying rhetorical argumentation. I’ve never talked with him in person, but the disagreements I’ve had with some of his positions always came down to his not taking the opposing side as a serious, evidenced stand and imputing motives not in evidence. I thought he just liked battling straw men, but you make clear he has a deeper reason for his ventures into, frankly, hysterical denunciation.
You're over thinking it. If America can vote for a pussy-grabbing ex-casino owner who got famous hosting a game business game show on TV, they can vote for anyone.
You’re not wrong, of course. But people tend to have very strong theories—as Harris does here—about why Americans would prefer a fascist to Mamdani in 2028. Which is—more or less—EXACTLY what he said.
"ordinary bureaucratic competence"
I'd suggest that there is no such thing, generally speaking. What you are seeing is competence, which you can compare to the assembled might of the US government, DoJ, and Military, as well as many other things to judge how "ordinary" it is.
Not being versed in the history of Harris, I lack your forbearance. To me he is simply a racist. I live in the second largest city in the UK, Birmingham, which is 53% non-white. So far eradication has escaped us white people. I'm not saying thete are no problems, there are always problems where enough people congregate, but we're OK, thanks. I suspect the likes of Elon Musk and co. don't realise how culturally different we are to America. Tommy Robinson turned up here and was kettled by the cops and the locals. Because he's a racist dick. And however long Musk rails at the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, it will make no difference, because he's been a great Mayor. We tend to prefer facts for the most part.
100% agree that when it comes to Judaism vs Islam S.H. changes his very demeanor from objective truth seeker to morally high-grounded apologist
This was an expert and genteel take down. I never listened to Harris because I was told more than once that he was what we used to call a bigot and had especially irrational,virulent views about Muslims.
I am not sure about the specifics of his views on Israel, however if they include supporting the ongoing annihilation of Gaza then in my opinion there are stronger words that would apply to him.
.
A note on Mike’s love of Hitchens.
I found Hitchens to be a regrettable personality who should be deeply and unconditionally condemned for his support for the Iraq invasion and long war. It seems that he was viewed by some as a courageous thinker who bravely critiqued his own tribe.No doubt he had some otherworldly skills. However his views always seemed cramped by his personality.Rarely insightful.
Even if he was a bolt of fresh lightening at all other times, he should be judged by his exceptionally cowardly endorsement of the Iraq war. Most serious people knew that Bush,Cheney and the CIA were lying.
And opposition ran high until almost the whole congress capitulated.The many years of conflict,the great loss of life and the long instability were all predictable. That war is moral stain and Hitchen’s culpability should be durable. He had voice and following. In this case he used it thoughtlessly.
Bush and his enablers were guilty of crimes and should have been held responsible.
I have written extensively my thoughts about Hitchens on Iraq elsewhere.
Yep, I knew this but didn’t have a chance to reply at that time. So since you mentioned him I took this opportunity to state an opposing view.
Muhammad was the only leader of a major world religion who was also a businessman. It’s rather ironic that this religion has now been conflated with socialism in many people’s minds.
I rather suspect the petrodollar club only pretends to be socialist until they gain power then it’s crony capitalism all the way. As with the Nazis.
what you call the petrodollar club (I assume you mean the countries who have oil and are run by Muslim Theocracies) has never claimed to be socialist. This is a label applied to some liberal American Muslims by people who hate them.
And many of these oil rich theocracies are socialist in that their citizens are paid a stipend from the wealth funds (not aware of the exact distribution networks) and there isn’t much work to be done beyond that done by their used and abused Asian immigrants. Some doctors and businessmen work, of course. Government Bureaucrats. Engineers tho many of these are imported by the oil companies. Lots of nepotism.
A system that only gives money to members of a certain family group is the opposite of socialism. You get something closer to socialism in heavily Republican Alaska, which gives income from its oil to every Alaskan citizen, regardless of tribal affiliation.
I never said they give only money to relatives but the closer one is to the throne the more wealthy one is likely to be. And in some of the smaller states almost everyone is a relative to one degree or another, by marriage etc. The Family aspect of socialism is why some say it works in the Nordic states where almost everyone historically (pre mass immigration) descended from Ragnar one way or the other.
No hate intended but neither do I want any reps funded by the petrodollar club insofar as they have very illiberal values.
i’m pretty sure you’ll find that Mamdani and the other DSA candidates receive zero dollars from the Petro states.
You have no way to know that. Thanks to citizens united. He definitely received lots of max donations from people with Arabic or Muslim names from out of state.
very nice, thoughtful article, extremely well documented. But I must add the somewhat nerdy comment that the concept of taqiyyah predates the Shia/Suni schism. Because Muhammad taught that lying was wrong, he was asked whether it was OK to deny one’s faith if acknowledging it could lead to torture or death. Muhammad answered in the affirmative. This position is essentially identical to the common sense view that it is OK to lie if the Nazis ask you whether you have Jews in the cellar.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/taqiyyah
"Which is why the pattern on Mamdani and El-Sayed is a real deviation, not a generalized failure. Harris has the method. He knows how to use it. He uses it on Piker and reaches a defensible conclusion on Piker."
Mike -- maybe it's only a deviation if you're looking at the wrong dimension.
Maybe in the Cheech and Chong dog-shit dimension (looks like it, tastes like it....), Harris's blanket anti-Isalm views have a name: racism. Why not use it?
I share Harris' secularism and read all of the Four Horsemen, but at least two of them suffered a derangement (literally, their views in one dimension were no longer in their normal range) in response to 9/11.
I am observing the principle of charity at this time.
I think you underestimate the ordinary individual’s talent for compartmentalization in service of ignoring whatever cognitive dissonance might otherwise disrupt one’s emotional or intellectual equilibrium.
Regarding Mamdani, his administration did revoke its use of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, he continues to use inflammatory language around Israel — invoking the ridiculous genocide canard when Gaza’s population has increased since 10/7/23. As to his wife’s explicit rejoicing about that day discovered in her social media feeds, he only pointed out that she is a private citizen. Excellent swerve, sir!
Seeing how quickly formerly modern societies devolved to the worst forms of barbarism
under the banners of Islam in Afghanistan and Iran, some are understandably wary about the increasing Muslim influence in the western world. Following the money, often this influence can be sourced back to the Muslim brotherhood and thus may align with its nefarious goals of a worldwide caliphate with no civil rights for minorities or women or anyone not Muslim. Qatar is a prime funder of the Muslim brotherhood as is Turkey also a major supporter and adherent.
Michigan’s Rashida Tlaib theoretically empathized with “any” victims of sexual assault on 10/7/23. Many Israelis theoretically empathize with “any” innocent Gazans. I am sure Harris would be willing to debate “any” honest broker of the Israel-Palestine quandaries if any could be found who have not already been fed a steady stream of Al-Jazeera Muslim brotherhood propaganda masquerading as the main stream media consensus on Gaza, not so different from the views on the left like the DSA who has made the elimination of the Zionist entity part of their party platform. Great way to rally the hoi polloi, as it has been for millennia.
Mike,
This is a thoughtful and fair analysis of both Sam Harris and his fear of what we might call Trojan Horse delivery systems of hateful ideology.
As you say, I believe Sam Harris is generally honest, sincere, and has very strong moral and intellectual beliefs. I think it is preposterous to believe he is anybody's shill. But like any other human being, even the most ethical and wise, he has blind spots and prejudices. You have called him out on those in a very fair, intellectually honest way. Hard to do, and well done.
What I would add is this: show me anyone who does not share that fault. Harris is an atheist, but his heritage is Jewish. Jews know that Jew murder and genocide are not fantasies; they happen with hideous regularity, and the precipitous rise in antisemitism around the world should be disturbing to any Jew, practicing or not. Harris may insist that his views on Islam and Israel are wholly logical, and I think he believes that. But this doesn't hold up, as you have so cogently argued.
What seems more likely is that this is an unexamined emotional reaction that has been intellectualized. This is not rare. We all are mostly blind to our subconscious rationalizations, especially those connected to fear.
Rather than dismiss Harris as a bigot, we should recognize this as an emotional response, not as a sign of either dishonesty or bad faith. Muslims who reflexively mistrust Jews, Whites who reflexively mistrust Blacks, Blacks who reflexively mistrust Whites all share that failing. Let he who is without this sin cast the first stone.
I have enjoyed listening to and reading Sam Harris for a long time, almost 20 years. I cancelled my Making Sense subscription because I did not like the QandA format he started and he stopped doing his wonderful rants in which he just read an essay. I loved the one he did on RFK Jr. for instance,. He tore his anti-vaccine position to pieces. Those rants became fewer. He invited his audience to ask questions, but he never answered some questions I posed. I asked over and over again about his advice on coping with Trump/far right people in the family or in friendships. I have lost a lot of friends and I look up to Sam but crickets...He disclosed a couple of times that he once was friends with Elon Musk and I thought, okay, maybe he'll give some practical advice on how to cope. I mean he is also a meditation teacher of sorts. I use his Waking Up, app, too. Well, over and over again, my question was never answered. I also asked why he disliked Kamala Harris so much. And why "wokeness" was such a problem. Nothing. And I also got tired of his defending Israel. I'm not an anti-semite in the least, but the situation in Israel is getting obviously awful and I just said, enough. But your analysis, Mike, of how Harris is "off" is nice to read. AND you also discussed AT LENGTH how you lost a friend and how it was okay to lose that friend. You did it with thoroughness and dignity and with a lot of consideration and sensitivity. It was not so much advice for someone like me (and a lot of others) who have lost friends and family to the far right, but it was, as you said, a "misery loves company" essay. You KNOW how we feel. I did not get that from Sam Harris. Not once did he think it important enough to talk about. I felt like he was name dropping. "I was friends with Elon Musk, the richest man alive, and now I'm not because he's crazy." But there was never a, "I bet you, too, members of my Making Sense club, have lost friends and I feel bad for you and here's a few pointers." Nothing like that. Of course, I know that Making Sense is not therapy. But people look up to him and even a few token words of advice might help. You, Mike, did that in your wonderful piece on losing a friend. Thank you. I really, really mean it.
I guess your song would be Stop Making Sense 😎
Man, that's a lot of words to describe a two-faced shit. But...excellent. I enjoyed every word.
Hm. I used to find Sam Harris worth listening to. This certainly makes me question that.