I've been writing about this for a while. You may find some of what I've written helpful.
Basically, it goes beyond "don't accept the frame, to 'make them justify themselves'" I've never run across a right wing bloviator this couldn't shut up.
Someone in my life ordered one hundred trump coins. When I realized my response was feeding the troll, I paused and flatly asked “what has he done to deserve to have his face on this coin”. Let’s just say the conversation ended. It’s anecdotal ofc but I think reinforces your claim.
When dealing with shameless hypocrites, the only way to win is not to play. Once I have determined you have no real opinions and are simply arguing for the sake of it, I just walk away. That's fine in a debate club but in the real world nobody has time for that shit.
What I found though is that the audience, when present, is usually unfamiliar with the concepts above and gets hooked and manipulated by the bullshiter , especially given that all humans like to watch a fight in some form or another, and that the average threshold of patience and attention span is, like, 1ns. So, to succeed, one has to have explicit manipulation skills of their own...
I have come to the conclusion that forums should have some intrinsic regulatory mechanisms and zap logic offenders 🙂
Dear Mike, thank you for that. It's nice to have a "hack" to deal with these assholes. Can you please keep giving us these important things to remember when Uncle Asshole Fox News Face is pontificating with his sieg heil bloviations. We need cheat sheets and hacks and so on because we have been playing honestly and they have gamed the shit out of us. We thought they were playing by the same high school debate rules and they threw that stuff out a long time ago. Consequently, we have had a difficult time adjusting. So, Debate Coach Mike (sorry if you're offended, but I mean it in the most complimentary way--we need coaching!) please give us more of how tos. I am saying we but really I just mean me. I read you because you say all of IT far better than I can. And I am sick to fucking death of the Uncle Asshole Fox News Faces winning.
Mike, this is a masterpiece of relevance and clarity. Bravo.
Good breakdown Mike. Today's test: see how this list applies to the Macklemore 'controversy.'
I've been writing about this for a while. You may find some of what I've written helpful.
Basically, it goes beyond "don't accept the frame, to 'make them justify themselves'" I've never run across a right wing bloviator this couldn't shut up.
https://jimryan.substack.com/p/the-radicalism-of-the-right-wing?r=4itqb&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
https://jimryan.substack.com/p/how-to-unnerve-right-wingers-with?r=4itqb&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
https://jimryan.substack.com/p/never-explain-explaining-is-losing?r=4itqb&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
El-Sayed appears to be playing by your rules. Nicely described!
I'd be interested in some specific examples to better illustrate these techniques
Loved this- thank you! Found Carney coming to mind, with his wry little smile 😊
Someone in my life ordered one hundred trump coins. When I realized my response was feeding the troll, I paused and flatly asked “what has he done to deserve to have his face on this coin”. Let’s just say the conversation ended. It’s anecdotal ofc but I think reinforces your claim.
When dealing with shameless hypocrites, the only way to win is not to play. Once I have determined you have no real opinions and are simply arguing for the sake of it, I just walk away. That's fine in a debate club but in the real world nobody has time for that shit.
Ha ha, so familiar!
What I found though is that the audience, when present, is usually unfamiliar with the concepts above and gets hooked and manipulated by the bullshiter , especially given that all humans like to watch a fight in some form or another, and that the average threshold of patience and attention span is, like, 1ns. So, to succeed, one has to have explicit manipulation skills of their own...
I have come to the conclusion that forums should have some intrinsic regulatory mechanisms and zap logic offenders 🙂
Dear Mike, thank you for that. It's nice to have a "hack" to deal with these assholes. Can you please keep giving us these important things to remember when Uncle Asshole Fox News Face is pontificating with his sieg heil bloviations. We need cheat sheets and hacks and so on because we have been playing honestly and they have gamed the shit out of us. We thought they were playing by the same high school debate rules and they threw that stuff out a long time ago. Consequently, we have had a difficult time adjusting. So, Debate Coach Mike (sorry if you're offended, but I mean it in the most complimentary way--we need coaching!) please give us more of how tos. I am saying we but really I just mean me. I read you because you say all of IT far better than I can. And I am sick to fucking death of the Uncle Asshole Fox News Faces winning.