Exactly. This is what I was getting at earlier- it's hard to engage in good faith anonymously without really knowing who they are (and if they are American). Your experiment is pointing to something I've long wondered about. So, I'm interested in hearing more
Confirms what I’ve been increasingly seeing and occasionally pointing out on BlueSky. Prior to the 2024 election, I’d worked with NAFO folks in their efforts to mass-report troll accounts engaging in this kind of engineered social media manipulation. For a time, it worked on Twitter…until Elon fully destroyed the algorithm and any real accountability leading up to the election. And because of that, around & following the inauguration, increasingly more folks fled X for BlueSky…and the sockpuppets & trolls weren’t far behind, pursuing the demographic they’d chased away from X.
Can you trust the FBI ? I appreciate this message to us. When I stopped posting on Facebook a year ago, I opened an account on Bluesky. But I stopped posting there too when I received an inordinate amount of messages from people posing as high-ranking military men supposedly interested in matrimony and masking as Palestinian journalists. The language was partly AI and partly genuine, revealing that the senders had a very poor grasp of English. Many had their accounts closed by Bluesky. I understand you’re speaking of different activity but I post my experiences as a warning.
The fact that they're targeting you means you're on the right path. It's sad how they've sold out though... capitalism.. I've always despised it from an early age. My soul, my virtues, my moral and my ethics are not for sale.
I share your ethics…but I can also empathize with the nihilistic hopelessness these folks are feeling cornered into. I can totally understand the animosity they might feel towards the tech / social media industry writ-large, (which has very tangibly & increasingly rapaciously destroyed their quality of life, economic prospects, social mobility, and the democratic power of their vote to mean anything.) …I understand the “burn-it-all-down-anyway” sentiment these folks feel, and if someone like the CCP or Kremlin is willing to help them eat and avoid eviction & homelessness for another month —in exchange for helping burn down [what can be seen as] the systemic rot of the social media landscape and of the PMC neoliberal class who suckles at the teat of this tech industry— then yeah, I can completely empathize with taking that money, too.
I do think that the phrase “sold out” is painting with a broad brush. To me, anyway, sold out implies that the person did it just because they wanted money, fame, etc.
But as J points out, there are more motivations to this than just money and fame. There’s survival, hopelessness, etc.
Maybe I’m nitpicking, but… maybe not? Words matter.
I'm not surprised that this is happening. Foreign actors have been meddling in the online perceptions of United States politics and disrupting our social cohesion for many years now.
You’re “In the Belly of the Beast” now, Sir. More accurately, you’ve Pried it’s Mouth Open and are Peering In. I recall the above mentioned Memoir being Quite Dark. There’s one Specific Image in it I won’t share of a Scene in the Federal Prison in Virginia. Just remember being Horrified. On U.S. Soil! And a U.S. Citizen! But I was Young. Not jaded. Just on My Way.
You’ve Hunted Goliath Down. Found Him. Confronted Him without Hesitation. I Trust you’ve All the Tools and Cohorts required to continue. You Definitely have the Courage and Stamina. May you Make the Difference you Imagine.
Call me Hyperbolic. Or rather, that Fun Term used At Women: Hysterical. So Be It.
Ok, so I just finished reading "The Virtuecratic Machine on Bluesky" and now this piece. And the elephant in the room for me is why are you on Twitter/X or Bluesky in the first place? I've heard you announce (when doing a live-stream) that it's being streamed on Twitter/X, and it's always been a bit of a head-scratcher for me.
Twitter/X has been known to be a cesspool for a long time, and that it encourages some of the worst human behavior is indisputable. I had no doubt that in time Bluesky would follow suit. Add in the trolls and the bots, it's like why the hell engage there?
It is worrisome that Substack could experience the same fate. I have often wondered if it would be best to remove the "like" function on Substack. Admittedly, I have used it many times and feel the dopamine hit when someone "likes" something that I say, but I do believe its presence is one of several things that encourages group-think, the need to fit in, and some of the other behaviors that you addressed in your prior post.
This will seem like an odd analogy, but I'm going to make it anyway. When I read your very thoughtful, moving, and in-depth posts, I liken it to watching the Tenemos Familias ad that the Bernie Sanders' campaign put out 10 years ago. It is not an ad that can easily run on TV because its length (5 min) doesn't fit into the standard commercial time limit. But the ad is the most powerful and moving ad I have ever seen, and, obviously, I still remember it to this day. (Here is the link for anyone who wants to watch.)
Your writing reminds me of that ad. Neither belong in a 30 second, 1 minute, or limited character setting with an audience who is more concerned with fitting in rather than learning or engaging in real dialogue. Although your experiment on Bluesky and the subsequent info that you have learned is valuable, I would encourage you to continue showcasing your writings in spaces that are actually set up to value it.
Agree. Social media in general is a total cesspool now dominated by fake accounts, trolls, AI, bots, and bad actors from overseas and at home who are paid to post. The only thing I’m surprised by, is anyone with half a brain engaging with it. I guess we’ve got ourselves into a spot where, what choice do we have? I have closed most of my accounts but then, for someone like Mike who wants to change things, who COULD change things… where can they reach an audience??
Yes, that is a conundrum in which many people find themselves. I don't have a good answer, but I would try this -- and mind you, I have never had an account on Twitter or Facebook, so I'm not entirely sure what tools, if any, are available to users -- but if there is the ability to shut off comments, I would start there. Mike could publish his pieces in the cesspool, but only let people engage with him on the "safer" platforms where he also publishes.
In terms of further exposure, I would use a larger platform like YouTube. I know that Mike has his "Live at 4" videos on YouTube, but some of those are long and not succinct. That's just the nature of going live. I enjoy the live videos, mind you, but if someone's goal is to have a well thought-out and tight message for people to link to, then my personal opinion is that the written word is the best option due to the contemplative manner in which it's created.
Here's the rub, though. A lot of people would prefer to listen to or watch an individual, rather than read. What to do?! Well, in addition to publishing his writings on Substack for those who like to read, I would suggest that Mike video-record himself while he reads his writings aloud and then post those videos to YouTube. It would definitely take some extra time, maybe time that he doesn't have, but he also wouldn't have to do it for all his writings, just ones that he views as his most important or compelling messages. (I just read "The Virtuecratic Machine on Bluesky" aloud and timed myself and it took about 16:45.)
By doing this, he would have thoughtful, tightly-edited pieces, clean and succinct, that people can listen to or watch, depending on how they like to consume information. His writings are passionate and the audience could hear that passion in his voice. And the video readings would be shorter than his "Live at 4" videos, so perhaps people would be more likely to link to them.
YouTube comments could be turned on or off depending on his level of tolerance that day!
All good thoughts. I find social media mind-bogglingly frustrating. I wish everyone would give big tech, trolls, and the misinformation industries everywhere, a great big middle finger, and log out. These massive networks get their power from attention. No attention, no power. But, of course that's not the world we live in. I can't even convince family members to log out let alone the billions of addicts all over the world who endlessly doomscroll the toxic sludge. The other frustration is, what's the alternative? People are not going to go back to proper reporters and writers like Mike publishing in curated newspapers that are properly fact checked yet maintain independence from corporate and political sponsors. It's all part of how we ended up with a monster like Trump, and why people continue to support him and his insanity/stupidity. We need a better system, better leaders, better support and systems for democracy. It seems technology is not only failing us here, it's exacerbating - even causing the situation.
I agree with everything you just said. I would also add that the intentional manipulation of the human brain that these companies engage in is extraordinarily problematic, not just on a social level, but a moral one.
Serious oversight and strict laws to force these companies to behave appropriately are necessary. And then hefty-hefty fines (I'm talking billions) and prison time for not doing so. And you're absolutely right that better systems and leaders are crucial. Whether that will ever happen remains to be seen. One would hope that given the nightmare of chaos, misinformation, and corruption that has unfolded in front of us, that new leaders would view this as a top priority.
In the meantime, it seems like one of the best things we can do is guide people to specific places where Mike, and others who create high caliber work, exist. Sometimes I will just copy and paste one of Mike's posts to family members or friends (with proper credit and where it came from). Basically, we introduce them to a different way of consuming information and different expectations of engagement. Breaking up with the more toxic platforms, though, is tough for many because they have come to believe, as Mike previously outlined, that being a good citizen entails toeing the line and beating back anyone who (gasp!) challenges them by steping outside of that line.
I agree, it's going to be an uphill battle. Getting brains retrained is no easy matter and the human animal's need to fit in is strong. I don't know if you ever used to watch "Star Trek: The Next Generation," but there is an episode where a purposely planted addictive game has spread all over the ship and reprogrammed the brains of all on board, resulting in them doing things they wouldn't ordinarily do. Data saves the day by using a gizmo (palm beacon) that flashes pulsating white light into the eyes of the crew, thus reversing the negative effects. I feel like our nation needs to invest in the construction of a very large palm beacon!
Thanks. I don't think it's unfixable, there are governments like Australia, who are having a go at reining in social media's hold over us. They're at least working on a palm beacon : ) And individuals who have successfully sued - albeit for amounts that Alphabet make in a matter of minutes. Long-term, perhaps we'll make some inroads, and who knows, maybe the world will learn something from Trump. Like, let's not let this happen again. On my brighter days, I believe it. Today, he wants us to "go get our own oil" as if it's a problem we caused ourselves, and is considering charging Gulf countries somehow - because of course we should pay for being bombed, those things are expensive. And somehow world leaders just absorb this and life goes on. When is someone going to stand up to this orange monster?
What I wanted from the first Trump presidency was reform of the Democratic party, to make Bernie Saunders an imaginable candidate. I'm used to a story that working-class people voted for the current president because they were being ignored by the political left.
I'll buy that the left has been a bit useless, and doesn't seem to have improved recently. I understand this leaves voters with a rubbish choice - wishy-washy, over-woke weaklings who couldn't finance their way out of a wet paper bag, or aggressive, financially manipulative, zero-moral monsters who would burn the world if it made them money. Personally I'd still go left, and given the current state of the US and now the world under Trump, I stand by that choice. But my point was never the unfortunate left right conundrum, it's the bigger picture issue of how we got here. And my feeling is that it had a lot to do with technology - in particular the death of journalism, not teaching kids the importance of politics, and the rise of social media. This created the conditions for division, a pathetic left, a fascist right, and the people's inability to distinguish fact from fiction, let alone be able to discuss and debate issues civilly - as is required for democracy to function.
> the rise of social media. This created the conditions for division,
Yes, of two kinds. There's a book about language on social media that I've lost the back-link to, and how coining a word helps an algorithm to steer a small group of people together, so they listen less to people further away in cultural space.
And the other kind, where groups of people are encouraged to shout past each other.
What you say is largely true. Many folks have other accounts, we are cross-pollinated. This is my only other account. I came here originally for Mike, as a CoSo user posted one of his pieces, and I was hooked. I had left X after 14 years.
You'd be surprised at how well CoSo does with news, we are dedicated, and at the outstanding minds & breadth of knowledge and expertise you would find there. The only thing I miss is not being able to flip a comment to a public figure. What I don't miss is the harassment that Mike is describing. Nor do I miss the Nazis.
I hear you, but the problem is the combination of user critical mass and the corresponding potential reach of any one user’s posts. That’s why people continue to use Xitter, even as terrible as it’s gotten…and Bluesky is headed down a similar troll-saturation path, simply because it got big enough to be a target. Smaller social media platforms can better-manage trolls simply because of their smaller size and more siloed userbase…but that also means their users have less reach; less ability to interact with / hear from people in all corners of everywhere about any topic. …That’s okay if you’re only interested in your own siloed community, but it’s really bad for communicating breaking news and sharing info with a wide-ranging audience.
If you read the article you will see he has been busy on Substack. And oddly enough it includes his home address in Ottawa. Your experience made me recall the article, and I thought you might find the interview illuminating.
Exactly. This is what I was getting at earlier- it's hard to engage in good faith anonymously without really knowing who they are (and if they are American). Your experiment is pointing to something I've long wondered about. So, I'm interested in hearing more
Confirms what I’ve been increasingly seeing and occasionally pointing out on BlueSky. Prior to the 2024 election, I’d worked with NAFO folks in their efforts to mass-report troll accounts engaging in this kind of engineered social media manipulation. For a time, it worked on Twitter…until Elon fully destroyed the algorithm and any real accountability leading up to the election. And because of that, around & following the inauguration, increasingly more folks fled X for BlueSky…and the sockpuppets & trolls weren’t far behind, pursuing the demographic they’d chased away from X.
Can you trust the FBI ? I appreciate this message to us. When I stopped posting on Facebook a year ago, I opened an account on Bluesky. But I stopped posting there too when I received an inordinate amount of messages from people posing as high-ranking military men supposedly interested in matrimony and masking as Palestinian journalists. The language was partly AI and partly genuine, revealing that the senders had a very poor grasp of English. Many had their accounts closed by Bluesky. I understand you’re speaking of different activity but I post my experiences as a warning.
The FBI. Isn't that kinda like asking the fox to help you escape from the other chickens in the henhouse.
How can we help?
The fact that they're targeting you means you're on the right path. It's sad how they've sold out though... capitalism.. I've always despised it from an early age. My soul, my virtues, my moral and my ethics are not for sale.
I share your ethics…but I can also empathize with the nihilistic hopelessness these folks are feeling cornered into. I can totally understand the animosity they might feel towards the tech / social media industry writ-large, (which has very tangibly & increasingly rapaciously destroyed their quality of life, economic prospects, social mobility, and the democratic power of their vote to mean anything.) …I understand the “burn-it-all-down-anyway” sentiment these folks feel, and if someone like the CCP or Kremlin is willing to help them eat and avoid eviction & homelessness for another month —in exchange for helping burn down [what can be seen as] the systemic rot of the social media landscape and of the PMC neoliberal class who suckles at the teat of this tech industry— then yeah, I can completely empathize with taking that money, too.
I do think that the phrase “sold out” is painting with a broad brush. To me, anyway, sold out implies that the person did it just because they wanted money, fame, etc.
But as J points out, there are more motivations to this than just money and fame. There’s survival, hopelessness, etc.
Maybe I’m nitpicking, but… maybe not? Words matter.
Sounds a Bit Off. Telling Mike Brock that “Words Matter”.
As Does Mike Brock.
I'm not surprised that this is happening. Foreign actors have been meddling in the online perceptions of United States politics and disrupting our social cohesion for many years now.
I'm looking forward to reading more, sir, and I offer prayers for your safety in light of the discoveries you've made. ✌️
Stay safe
Fascinating…. I so glad you did this! I can’t wait to hear more
You’re “In the Belly of the Beast” now, Sir. More accurately, you’ve Pried it’s Mouth Open and are Peering In. I recall the above mentioned Memoir being Quite Dark. There’s one Specific Image in it I won’t share of a Scene in the Federal Prison in Virginia. Just remember being Horrified. On U.S. Soil! And a U.S. Citizen! But I was Young. Not jaded. Just on My Way.
You’ve Hunted Goliath Down. Found Him. Confronted Him without Hesitation. I Trust you’ve All the Tools and Cohorts required to continue. You Definitely have the Courage and Stamina. May you Make the Difference you Imagine.
Call me Hyperbolic. Or rather, that Fun Term used At Women: Hysterical. So Be It.
You’re Made for This Fight, Mike Brock.
> Now Confront Him
Preferably with ranged weapons, rather than at close quarters. Assuming competence, the FBI seems like a good choice.
Ok, so I just finished reading "The Virtuecratic Machine on Bluesky" and now this piece. And the elephant in the room for me is why are you on Twitter/X or Bluesky in the first place? I've heard you announce (when doing a live-stream) that it's being streamed on Twitter/X, and it's always been a bit of a head-scratcher for me.
Twitter/X has been known to be a cesspool for a long time, and that it encourages some of the worst human behavior is indisputable. I had no doubt that in time Bluesky would follow suit. Add in the trolls and the bots, it's like why the hell engage there?
It is worrisome that Substack could experience the same fate. I have often wondered if it would be best to remove the "like" function on Substack. Admittedly, I have used it many times and feel the dopamine hit when someone "likes" something that I say, but I do believe its presence is one of several things that encourages group-think, the need to fit in, and some of the other behaviors that you addressed in your prior post.
This will seem like an odd analogy, but I'm going to make it anyway. When I read your very thoughtful, moving, and in-depth posts, I liken it to watching the Tenemos Familias ad that the Bernie Sanders' campaign put out 10 years ago. It is not an ad that can easily run on TV because its length (5 min) doesn't fit into the standard commercial time limit. But the ad is the most powerful and moving ad I have ever seen, and, obviously, I still remember it to this day. (Here is the link for anyone who wants to watch.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XXEHZsAkR0
Your writing reminds me of that ad. Neither belong in a 30 second, 1 minute, or limited character setting with an audience who is more concerned with fitting in rather than learning or engaging in real dialogue. Although your experiment on Bluesky and the subsequent info that you have learned is valuable, I would encourage you to continue showcasing your writings in spaces that are actually set up to value it.
Agree. Social media in general is a total cesspool now dominated by fake accounts, trolls, AI, bots, and bad actors from overseas and at home who are paid to post. The only thing I’m surprised by, is anyone with half a brain engaging with it. I guess we’ve got ourselves into a spot where, what choice do we have? I have closed most of my accounts but then, for someone like Mike who wants to change things, who COULD change things… where can they reach an audience??
Hi Nick,
Yes, that is a conundrum in which many people find themselves. I don't have a good answer, but I would try this -- and mind you, I have never had an account on Twitter or Facebook, so I'm not entirely sure what tools, if any, are available to users -- but if there is the ability to shut off comments, I would start there. Mike could publish his pieces in the cesspool, but only let people engage with him on the "safer" platforms where he also publishes.
In terms of further exposure, I would use a larger platform like YouTube. I know that Mike has his "Live at 4" videos on YouTube, but some of those are long and not succinct. That's just the nature of going live. I enjoy the live videos, mind you, but if someone's goal is to have a well thought-out and tight message for people to link to, then my personal opinion is that the written word is the best option due to the contemplative manner in which it's created.
Here's the rub, though. A lot of people would prefer to listen to or watch an individual, rather than read. What to do?! Well, in addition to publishing his writings on Substack for those who like to read, I would suggest that Mike video-record himself while he reads his writings aloud and then post those videos to YouTube. It would definitely take some extra time, maybe time that he doesn't have, but he also wouldn't have to do it for all his writings, just ones that he views as his most important or compelling messages. (I just read "The Virtuecratic Machine on Bluesky" aloud and timed myself and it took about 16:45.)
By doing this, he would have thoughtful, tightly-edited pieces, clean and succinct, that people can listen to or watch, depending on how they like to consume information. His writings are passionate and the audience could hear that passion in his voice. And the video readings would be shorter than his "Live at 4" videos, so perhaps people would be more likely to link to them.
YouTube comments could be turned on or off depending on his level of tolerance that day!
All good thoughts. I find social media mind-bogglingly frustrating. I wish everyone would give big tech, trolls, and the misinformation industries everywhere, a great big middle finger, and log out. These massive networks get their power from attention. No attention, no power. But, of course that's not the world we live in. I can't even convince family members to log out let alone the billions of addicts all over the world who endlessly doomscroll the toxic sludge. The other frustration is, what's the alternative? People are not going to go back to proper reporters and writers like Mike publishing in curated newspapers that are properly fact checked yet maintain independence from corporate and political sponsors. It's all part of how we ended up with a monster like Trump, and why people continue to support him and his insanity/stupidity. We need a better system, better leaders, better support and systems for democracy. It seems technology is not only failing us here, it's exacerbating - even causing the situation.
Hi Nick,
I agree with everything you just said. I would also add that the intentional manipulation of the human brain that these companies engage in is extraordinarily problematic, not just on a social level, but a moral one.
Serious oversight and strict laws to force these companies to behave appropriately are necessary. And then hefty-hefty fines (I'm talking billions) and prison time for not doing so. And you're absolutely right that better systems and leaders are crucial. Whether that will ever happen remains to be seen. One would hope that given the nightmare of chaos, misinformation, and corruption that has unfolded in front of us, that new leaders would view this as a top priority.
In the meantime, it seems like one of the best things we can do is guide people to specific places where Mike, and others who create high caliber work, exist. Sometimes I will just copy and paste one of Mike's posts to family members or friends (with proper credit and where it came from). Basically, we introduce them to a different way of consuming information and different expectations of engagement. Breaking up with the more toxic platforms, though, is tough for many because they have come to believe, as Mike previously outlined, that being a good citizen entails toeing the line and beating back anyone who (gasp!) challenges them by steping outside of that line.
I agree, it's going to be an uphill battle. Getting brains retrained is no easy matter and the human animal's need to fit in is strong. I don't know if you ever used to watch "Star Trek: The Next Generation," but there is an episode where a purposely planted addictive game has spread all over the ship and reprogrammed the brains of all on board, resulting in them doing things they wouldn't ordinarily do. Data saves the day by using a gizmo (palm beacon) that flashes pulsating white light into the eyes of the crew, thus reversing the negative effects. I feel like our nation needs to invest in the construction of a very large palm beacon!
Thanks. I don't think it's unfixable, there are governments like Australia, who are having a go at reining in social media's hold over us. They're at least working on a palm beacon : ) And individuals who have successfully sued - albeit for amounts that Alphabet make in a matter of minutes. Long-term, perhaps we'll make some inroads, and who knows, maybe the world will learn something from Trump. Like, let's not let this happen again. On my brighter days, I believe it. Today, he wants us to "go get our own oil" as if it's a problem we caused ourselves, and is considering charging Gulf countries somehow - because of course we should pay for being bombed, those things are expensive. And somehow world leaders just absorb this and life goes on. When is someone going to stand up to this orange monster?
> how we ended up with a monster like Trump
Yes, with a side-helping of no.
What I wanted from the first Trump presidency was reform of the Democratic party, to make Bernie Saunders an imaginable candidate. I'm used to a story that working-class people voted for the current president because they were being ignored by the political left.
I'll buy that the left has been a bit useless, and doesn't seem to have improved recently. I understand this leaves voters with a rubbish choice - wishy-washy, over-woke weaklings who couldn't finance their way out of a wet paper bag, or aggressive, financially manipulative, zero-moral monsters who would burn the world if it made them money. Personally I'd still go left, and given the current state of the US and now the world under Trump, I stand by that choice. But my point was never the unfortunate left right conundrum, it's the bigger picture issue of how we got here. And my feeling is that it had a lot to do with technology - in particular the death of journalism, not teaching kids the importance of politics, and the rise of social media. This created the conditions for division, a pathetic left, a fascist right, and the people's inability to distinguish fact from fiction, let alone be able to discuss and debate issues civilly - as is required for democracy to function.
> the rise of social media. This created the conditions for division,
Yes, of two kinds. There's a book about language on social media that I've lost the back-link to, and how coining a word helps an algorithm to steer a small group of people together, so they listen less to people further away in cultural space.
And the other kind, where groups of people are encouraged to shout past each other.
This was so informative, please keep us posted and appreciate you.
Counter.Social No bots, no trolls, no ads, no algorithms, no bad actors. They are gone in a flash. True community.
What you say is largely true. Many folks have other accounts, we are cross-pollinated. This is my only other account. I came here originally for Mike, as a CoSo user posted one of his pieces, and I was hooked. I had left X after 14 years.
You'd be surprised at how well CoSo does with news, we are dedicated, and at the outstanding minds & breadth of knowledge and expertise you would find there. The only thing I miss is not being able to flip a comment to a public figure. What I don't miss is the harassment that Mike is describing. Nor do I miss the Nazis.
Fair points, all.
I hear you, but the problem is the combination of user critical mass and the corresponding potential reach of any one user’s posts. That’s why people continue to use Xitter, even as terrible as it’s gotten…and Bluesky is headed down a similar troll-saturation path, simply because it got big enough to be a target. Smaller social media platforms can better-manage trolls simply because of their smaller size and more siloed userbase…but that also means their users have less reach; less ability to interact with / hear from people in all corners of everywhere about any topic. …That’s okay if you’re only interested in your own siloed community, but it’s really bad for communicating breaking news and sharing info with a wide-ranging audience.
POINT.
May be a worthy source for News beyond the Social Aspects you mention.
Thx Mike.
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa-man-ai-bot-maga
If you read the article you will see he has been busy on Substack. And oddly enough it includes his home address in Ottawa. Your experience made me recall the article, and I thought you might find the interview illuminating.
The payola is rampant on both sides. Our entire society is for sale
> The payola is rampant on both sides.
So sides, as in left/right, is orthogonal to the payer's success criteria, which are probably polarisation rather than cooperation.