I wonder if any of the “20 points” are poison pills Palestinian leadership won’t accept, and if this is yet more performative nonsense to don a fig leaf of plausible deniability when the killing continues.
You always cut to the core of things with precision and grace. Bravo. Another FYI: on September 21st, France, the UK, Australia and Canada recognized Palestine at the UN meeting where Netanyahu was present. He attacked them saying that there would never be two states, but few heard it - most delegates left the auditorium as he was speaking.
This appears to be timed to justify Trumps Nobel Peace Prize and fulfill his and Kushner's Gaza Riviera dream. It is so clearly a con job that I cant believe Hamas could fall for it, but I suppose they might be at the end of their ropes and desperate enough to do so.
Upon agreement all hostages are to be released. Israeli forces will withdraw to the agreed upon line and maintains control of areas not-terror free . This appears to be determined by Israel. No map is provided on what is proposed
The United States will develop a temporary International Stabilization Force (I.S.F.) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The I.S.F. will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces.
Israel Defense Forces (I.D.F.) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and time frames linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the I.D.F., I.S.F., the guarantors (regional partners), and the United States
The I.D.F. will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza. So its not specified as yet and will be subject to IDF approval.
P.A. reform program must be faithfully carried out before it can have a role in governance. Apparently the determination as to the reform being carried out faithfully is made by Israel.
The plan proceeds even if Hamas rejects it in the terror-free areas handed over from the I.D.F. to the I.S.F
Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries. Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. I’ll believe that when I see it. Who will be providing the safe passage or granting amnesty is not clear.
Full aid will be immediately sent into the Gaza Strip. Entry of distribution and aid in the Gaza Strip will proceed through the United Nations and its agencies, and the Red Crescent, in addition to other international institutions not associated in any manner with either party. The UN? Really?
Gaza will be governed by a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of State to be announced. It will create a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. How much do you want to bet that Thiel, Musk and Ellison get in on that action?
A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created. The Board of Peace (Trump) will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform program (determined by Israel). Kushner must be happy in his pants at this. Cha-Ching.
A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries. The attraction for foreign investors will be low wage Labor from Gaza who will be imported to work in these special economic zones. Gazans will be likely restricted from living in these ocean front economic development zones
In the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including the scaled-up aid operation, will proceed in the terror-free areas handed over from the I.D.F. to the I.S.F. So it will proceed regardless of an agreement.
While Gaza redevelopment advances and when the P.A. reform program is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognize as the aspiration of the Palestinian people. Pfft. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Israel can stop the Genocide without an agreement. Duh. And from Hamas POV they have to trust Israel/US uphold their agreement for amnesty/exit. Both have demonstrated they will break agreements. I dont care for Hamas one way or another but the agreement ensures the rest of the population become technocratic feudal slaves. You should not have to surrender freedom for stopping genocide. Genocide is evil as well as those who support it,
You can keep saying genocide till your blue in the face but it won’t stop anyone with a brain from analyzing the circumstances and Israel’s causus belli. Even if Israel’s conduct in the WB was beyond reproach their demand for Hamas to step down isn’t unreasonable.
Demanding them step down is fine, just don’t genocide innocent women/children if they don’t. We hang those who commit Genocide and as we saw in Nuremberg, “You Too” is not an acceptable defense.
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks," they say. Can you teach two old dogs new tricks? Don't think so. We can't get along in this country that's 249 years old. The "prophet" King (not MLK) but Rodney even queried, "why can't we all get along?"
So.... you think cultures that have despised each other, that have pillaged each other, raped and slaughtered each other, and decapitated each other for 3,000 years will now make up?
The ancient Philistines' homeland was along the southern coast of the region now primarily occupied by Israel and the Gaza Strip. I do not know if there are grounds (no pun intended) to document David vs. Goliath, but there are archeological findings to support Israelites in battle with Philistines.
• Extensive excavations of ancient Philistine cities in Israel have uncovered significant evidence that supports the biblical accounts of conflict with the Israelites:
• Excavations at Philistine cities like Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, and Gath show a distinctive material culture, including Aegean-style pottery and architectural elements. This demonstrates the Philistines' different background from the local Israelite and Canaanite populations.
• Archaeology has uncovered destruction layers at key sites, such as the Israelite spiritual center of Shiloh, dating to the period when the Bible says the Philistines sacked it and captured the Ark of the Covenant (1 Samuel 4).
Do you believe that the pronouncements of el último con artist Trump, and a disingenuous Netanyahu, displaying pseudo-praise of Trump, now have found a Eureka or A_Ha moment (thank you, Oprah) and figured out a way to bring peace and a so-called 2-State solution after the horrendous death and destruction of Gaza? I'm Jewish, born and raised, and I am pissed at what Israel, under Netanyahu, has done to disgrace the honor and spirituality of the Jewish peoples. I do agree with hunting down every Hamas member, and making their life hell. But do not slaughter the civilian population, as has Putin. Having done this equates Jews in Israel with the horrors that Putin has unleashed on Ukraine, Chechnya, and Georgia with over 60,000 civilian deaths.
I don't know about the rest of you, but if I were living in Gaza and had bombs dropping on my neighborhood, levelling every building to the ground, or below, and having my loved ones murdered, or the family across the street crushed like an insect, I would not be able to let go of my wish for revenge.
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating." All the promises spewed out of the orifice of the POTUS have been 90% pure, unadulterated bullshit. I'll believe anything he says when I see evidence that it is so.
Finally, what really appalled me listening to Netanyahu was his alluding to the great work that Trump has done in making America great again. And to add, that he (Trump) has also made the world better totally discredits Netanyahu from having any credibility.
Two comments: it remains to be seen whether Netanyahu actually abides by the terms of this putative agreement. He is under tremendous pressure from Gvir and the rest of that extremism mob to wipe out Gaza and turn it into ground fit for real estate development. If he pursues the plan he risks blowing up his government which would trigger early elections…perhaps this year…which could very well result in his being forced out of power, perhaps once and for all.
Second, notable by its omission is any mention of the West Bank which the extremists in his government plan to annex. Perhaps this is a trade off to keep Gvir in place and keep the government together. Time will tell.
"...a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump...This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza...A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created..."
This is the tell; Trump doesn't care about Israel, or Gaza, or Palestine; he just wants to make sure all the money and power flows through him, so he can skim off the top, sides, and bottom.
Psychic dilemma: if this succeeds, it could be very good for people in the region. It would also allow Trump to bellow about his deal making and demand that Nobel, which the legacy media will echo without the least iota of context.
It’s not only a retreat for Netanyahu, it’s also clearly a negotiated surrender for Hamas. They would never have agreed to this before (and may not yet). The pressure went both ways.
Huge mess. So much death and destruction ... Israel was either more desperate than we knew or Netanyahu more of a thug and piece of shit whose personal problems overlapped with the state's. Or both. From the beginning the question was raised -- was this Israel's 9/11? America destroyed itself after that because it had the wrong leadership with mixed motives, moral blindness by tribal association or identity impulse, and vested personal business interests.
Why didn't Hamas strike Israel in a different way? It was cynical baiting behavior. Cynical because they don't give a shit about the Palestinians. They have their eyes on a bigger prize, the annihilation of the state of Israel. Yeah, that's real, I believe. And exactly as Republicans have done in America they baited their own side as well, into buying into that self-destructive and apocalyptic fantasy. So, yes, I think they were all implicated but the Palestinians needed to be understood and protected. They got used by people who didn't give a shit.
Cannon fodder in a culture war, like most of Trump's base. The limiting case horror is nuclear or mass-destructive terrorism but all of that is changing rapidly and even scarier because of new technologies. Israel made it clear that when they got hit they would strike back, period, at a specific perpetrator if possible but maybe everybody anyway. What else could they do? Here, again, it resonates with America's situation. You don't want to be stuck in a conflict with crazies, especially internally, but there was no way out of that. So, extreme measures.
Deep empathy, which is required even if it can't translate directly into policy, goes out the window. It must inform decisions at some level and Jews have historically excelled at this because they suffered so much by its absence. Circumstances are working against it now, though surprisingly much of it is still going on. My take on this was influenced by a talk a local rabbi gave many years ago. He had an apartment in Tel Aviv and described what the Palestinians were going through, a kind of state version of passive aggression.
Deep empathy, in other words, on the part of the rabbi. Israel has guaranteed a permanent, mass-murdering impulse against it but they were already there. It's going to be more intense, but the capabilities of its adversaries have been degraded so in the short run they will be more secure, I think. That 'short run' might be contracting. They will need to try to change relations with the Arab states and even Iran. Some of those states seem to be following the Trump model, with a fantastically wealthy elite who don't give a shit about anybody but themselves.
Apocalypticists are in the mix on all sides, both religious fanatics and now, more newly and scarily, super-rich elements that are comfortable with social collapse and mass death because they think they can come out of it in a cool situation, as they see it. They will be techno-lords in weird, possibly partly mobile and/or virtual, fiefdoms. Remember these are people who buy islands and yachts and fantasize about colonizing Mars. They're completely nuts. Watch 'The Long Good Friday' if you haven't. Great movie and there are insights there.
And Helen Mirren. Understanding your enemies is the idea, and that your greatest enemy might be yourself ...
Just an FYI: UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese mentioned a forthcoming report about the complicity between the United States and Israel during a DRM News press conference on September 15th, 2025 which you may view on DRM New's You Tube channel. The title is, 'FULL PRESSER: UN's Francesca Albanese Accuses Israel of Ethnic Cleansing in Gaza'. It will be interesting to read Albanese's report, which should be available soon if not already, with today's meeting between Trump and Netanyahu and Mike's interpretation of it in mind.
Here is where I found where Francesca Albanese mentioned her forthcoming report on complicity: @20:33 during a DRM News press conference dated September 15th, 2025 available at the url below.
Her report came out on July 1st. An eye-opener. High on the list of American tech companies who facilitated genocide are IBM, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and Palantir who helped provided Israel with lists of victims to target using biometric data, victims like journalists and a doctor who was recently shot in the head inside the hospital, by a drone outside the window.
I wonder if any of the “20 points” are poison pills Palestinian leadership won’t accept, and if this is yet more performative nonsense to don a fig leaf of plausible deniability when the killing continues.
Well Hamas has to surrender.
The PA is run by Fatah so that won’t be a problem
You always cut to the core of things with precision and grace. Bravo. Another FYI: on September 21st, France, the UK, Australia and Canada recognized Palestine at the UN meeting where Netanyahu was present. He attacked them saying that there would never be two states, but few heard it - most delegates left the auditorium as he was speaking.
I have a different take Mike
This appears to be timed to justify Trumps Nobel Peace Prize and fulfill his and Kushner's Gaza Riviera dream. It is so clearly a con job that I cant believe Hamas could fall for it, but I suppose they might be at the end of their ropes and desperate enough to do so.
Upon agreement all hostages are to be released. Israeli forces will withdraw to the agreed upon line and maintains control of areas not-terror free . This appears to be determined by Israel. No map is provided on what is proposed
The United States will develop a temporary International Stabilization Force (I.S.F.) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The I.S.F. will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces.
Israel Defense Forces (I.D.F.) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and time frames linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the I.D.F., I.S.F., the guarantors (regional partners), and the United States
The I.D.F. will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza. So its not specified as yet and will be subject to IDF approval.
P.A. reform program must be faithfully carried out before it can have a role in governance. Apparently the determination as to the reform being carried out faithfully is made by Israel.
The plan proceeds even if Hamas rejects it in the terror-free areas handed over from the I.D.F. to the I.S.F
Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries. Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. I’ll believe that when I see it. Who will be providing the safe passage or granting amnesty is not clear.
Full aid will be immediately sent into the Gaza Strip. Entry of distribution and aid in the Gaza Strip will proceed through the United Nations and its agencies, and the Red Crescent, in addition to other international institutions not associated in any manner with either party. The UN? Really?
Gaza will be governed by a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of State to be announced. It will create a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. How much do you want to bet that Thiel, Musk and Ellison get in on that action?
A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created. The Board of Peace (Trump) will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform program (determined by Israel). Kushner must be happy in his pants at this. Cha-Ching.
A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries. The attraction for foreign investors will be low wage Labor from Gaza who will be imported to work in these special economic zones. Gazans will be likely restricted from living in these ocean front economic development zones
In the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including the scaled-up aid operation, will proceed in the terror-free areas handed over from the I.D.F. to the I.S.F. So it will proceed regardless of an agreement.
While Gaza redevelopment advances and when the P.A. reform program is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognize as the aspiration of the Palestinian people. Pfft. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PslOp883rfI
Jared and Ivanka are busy picking out waterfront condo features! Uncle Bibi is loved.
So it’s a “genocide,” but you don’t think Hamas should agree to a ceasefire. Got it.
Israel can stop the Genocide without an agreement. Duh. And from Hamas POV they have to trust Israel/US uphold their agreement for amnesty/exit. Both have demonstrated they will break agreements. I dont care for Hamas one way or another but the agreement ensures the rest of the population become technocratic feudal slaves. You should not have to surrender freedom for stopping genocide. Genocide is evil as well as those who support it,
You can keep saying genocide till your blue in the face but it won’t stop anyone with a brain from analyzing the circumstances and Israel’s causus belli. Even if Israel’s conduct in the WB was beyond reproach their demand for Hamas to step down isn’t unreasonable.
Demanding them step down is fine, just don’t genocide innocent women/children if they don’t. We hang those who commit Genocide and as we saw in Nuremberg, “You Too” is not an acceptable defense.
I agree that Israel has excessively tolerated civilian casualties.
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks," they say. Can you teach two old dogs new tricks? Don't think so. We can't get along in this country that's 249 years old. The "prophet" King (not MLK) but Rodney even queried, "why can't we all get along?"
So.... you think cultures that have despised each other, that have pillaged each other, raped and slaughtered each other, and decapitated each other for 3,000 years will now make up?
The ancient Philistines' homeland was along the southern coast of the region now primarily occupied by Israel and the Gaza Strip. I do not know if there are grounds (no pun intended) to document David vs. Goliath, but there are archeological findings to support Israelites in battle with Philistines.
• Extensive excavations of ancient Philistine cities in Israel have uncovered significant evidence that supports the biblical accounts of conflict with the Israelites:
• Excavations at Philistine cities like Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, and Gath show a distinctive material culture, including Aegean-style pottery and architectural elements. This demonstrates the Philistines' different background from the local Israelite and Canaanite populations.
• Archaeology has uncovered destruction layers at key sites, such as the Israelite spiritual center of Shiloh, dating to the period when the Bible says the Philistines sacked it and captured the Ark of the Covenant (1 Samuel 4).
Do you believe that the pronouncements of el último con artist Trump, and a disingenuous Netanyahu, displaying pseudo-praise of Trump, now have found a Eureka or A_Ha moment (thank you, Oprah) and figured out a way to bring peace and a so-called 2-State solution after the horrendous death and destruction of Gaza? I'm Jewish, born and raised, and I am pissed at what Israel, under Netanyahu, has done to disgrace the honor and spirituality of the Jewish peoples. I do agree with hunting down every Hamas member, and making their life hell. But do not slaughter the civilian population, as has Putin. Having done this equates Jews in Israel with the horrors that Putin has unleashed on Ukraine, Chechnya, and Georgia with over 60,000 civilian deaths.
I don't know about the rest of you, but if I were living in Gaza and had bombs dropping on my neighborhood, levelling every building to the ground, or below, and having my loved ones murdered, or the family across the street crushed like an insect, I would not be able to let go of my wish for revenge.
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating." All the promises spewed out of the orifice of the POTUS have been 90% pure, unadulterated bullshit. I'll believe anything he says when I see evidence that it is so.
Finally, what really appalled me listening to Netanyahu was his alluding to the great work that Trump has done in making America great again. And to add, that he (Trump) has also made the world better totally discredits Netanyahu from having any credibility.
Two comments: it remains to be seen whether Netanyahu actually abides by the terms of this putative agreement. He is under tremendous pressure from Gvir and the rest of that extremism mob to wipe out Gaza and turn it into ground fit for real estate development. If he pursues the plan he risks blowing up his government which would trigger early elections…perhaps this year…which could very well result in his being forced out of power, perhaps once and for all.
Second, notable by its omission is any mention of the West Bank which the extremists in his government plan to annex. Perhaps this is a trade off to keep Gvir in place and keep the government together. Time will tell.
This is of course, all true. But Netanyahu even rhetorically offering these terms is a massive tell about the political capital he thinks he now has.
"...a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump...This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza...A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created..."
This is the tell; Trump doesn't care about Israel, or Gaza, or Palestine; he just wants to make sure all the money and power flows through him, so he can skim off the top, sides, and bottom.
Psychic dilemma: if this succeeds, it could be very good for people in the region. It would also allow Trump to bellow about his deal making and demand that Nobel, which the legacy media will echo without the least iota of context.
Oh well.
https://www.eldiario.es/internacional/plan-trump-gaza-proyecto-dominacion-colonial-2-0-ocupacion-permanente_129_12643135.html
It’s not only a retreat for Netanyahu, it’s also clearly a negotiated surrender for Hamas. They would never have agreed to this before (and may not yet). The pressure went both ways.
Huge mess. So much death and destruction ... Israel was either more desperate than we knew or Netanyahu more of a thug and piece of shit whose personal problems overlapped with the state's. Or both. From the beginning the question was raised -- was this Israel's 9/11? America destroyed itself after that because it had the wrong leadership with mixed motives, moral blindness by tribal association or identity impulse, and vested personal business interests.
Why didn't Hamas strike Israel in a different way? It was cynical baiting behavior. Cynical because they don't give a shit about the Palestinians. They have their eyes on a bigger prize, the annihilation of the state of Israel. Yeah, that's real, I believe. And exactly as Republicans have done in America they baited their own side as well, into buying into that self-destructive and apocalyptic fantasy. So, yes, I think they were all implicated but the Palestinians needed to be understood and protected. They got used by people who didn't give a shit.
Cannon fodder in a culture war, like most of Trump's base. The limiting case horror is nuclear or mass-destructive terrorism but all of that is changing rapidly and even scarier because of new technologies. Israel made it clear that when they got hit they would strike back, period, at a specific perpetrator if possible but maybe everybody anyway. What else could they do? Here, again, it resonates with America's situation. You don't want to be stuck in a conflict with crazies, especially internally, but there was no way out of that. So, extreme measures.
Deep empathy, which is required even if it can't translate directly into policy, goes out the window. It must inform decisions at some level and Jews have historically excelled at this because they suffered so much by its absence. Circumstances are working against it now, though surprisingly much of it is still going on. My take on this was influenced by a talk a local rabbi gave many years ago. He had an apartment in Tel Aviv and described what the Palestinians were going through, a kind of state version of passive aggression.
Deep empathy, in other words, on the part of the rabbi. Israel has guaranteed a permanent, mass-murdering impulse against it but they were already there. It's going to be more intense, but the capabilities of its adversaries have been degraded so in the short run they will be more secure, I think. That 'short run' might be contracting. They will need to try to change relations with the Arab states and even Iran. Some of those states seem to be following the Trump model, with a fantastically wealthy elite who don't give a shit about anybody but themselves.
Apocalypticists are in the mix on all sides, both religious fanatics and now, more newly and scarily, super-rich elements that are comfortable with social collapse and mass death because they think they can come out of it in a cool situation, as they see it. They will be techno-lords in weird, possibly partly mobile and/or virtual, fiefdoms. Remember these are people who buy islands and yachts and fantasize about colonizing Mars. They're completely nuts. Watch 'The Long Good Friday' if you haven't. Great movie and there are insights there.
And Helen Mirren. Understanding your enemies is the idea, and that your greatest enemy might be yourself ...
Just an FYI: UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese mentioned a forthcoming report about the complicity between the United States and Israel during a DRM News press conference on September 15th, 2025 which you may view on DRM New's You Tube channel. The title is, 'FULL PRESSER: UN's Francesca Albanese Accuses Israel of Ethnic Cleansing in Gaza'. It will be interesting to read Albanese's report, which should be available soon if not already, with today's meeting between Trump and Netanyahu and Mike's interpretation of it in mind.
Here is the link and she talks about her forthcoming complicity report @20:33 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WU5Srsh8oM8
Here is where I found where Francesca Albanese mentioned her forthcoming report on complicity: @20:33 during a DRM News press conference dated September 15th, 2025 available at the url below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F1Rajii-Us
Her report came out on July 1st. An eye-opener. High on the list of American tech companies who facilitated genocide are IBM, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and Palantir who helped provided Israel with lists of victims to target using biometric data, victims like journalists and a doctor who was recently shot in the head inside the hospital, by a drone outside the window.