Always remember: judicial due process is a right that must, without question, be afforded to everyone, regardless of citizenship status.
Why?
Because if noncitizens lack basic due process rights, then a government can start a deportation proceeding against anyone, citizen or no, immediately claim that the person in question is not a citizen, and without due process rights the defendant has no opportunity to rebut the claim, even if the person is a citizen. In this way the government can deport anyone it likes--such as, say, domestic political enemies who are nonetheless (inconveniently) citizens.
(And, of course, this extends to any judicially mediated claim; if you can't defend yourself against a claim if you're not a citizen, then a government can make any claim it likes about you, tack on that you're not a citizen, you can't rebut, and then that government can do whatever it wants to you. Due process must exist at least insofar as the opportunity to present proof of citizenship, or it doesn't exist for anyone.)
Those who look at medicine through the same lens of enacting due process do so by invoking the concept/question: "Is it evidence-based?" The transparency that most politicians, thoughtless and hypocritically espouse, is often flagrant bullshit.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes... they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." — John Adams
" The definition of an extreme authoritarian is one who is willing blindly to assume that government accusations are true without any evidence presented or opportunity to contest those accusations." — Glenn Greenwald
What we have in the US is a POTUS, SCOTUS and CONGROTUS (Republican Congress) that flouts lies and asserts that those who oppose them are delusional. We are more than waist high in the shit of a Republican government that is off the rails, in not only due process, but freedom of the press, freedom of lawful assembly, freedom of speech + a most astounding rape of the American taxpayer with violation almost every day of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
I need to bring back Martha and the Vandellas with a new song: Screaming in the Streets; or possibly, a new version of No Where to Run.
Borders aren't real, we made them up. There is one planet and we all fucking share it. Crossing imaginary lines in the sand does not make you deserving of being tortured to death in a foreign countries gulag. Anyone who does not understand this implicitly is either evil or an idiot and I will instantly despise them either way.
'To concede this point—to accept that “illegal” means “less human”—is to engage in fascistic thinking.' To accept that anything about an individual makes them "less human" is to engage in fascistic thinking. Even the worst criminals, such as our President and his cabinet, are still human beings, and are entitled to all the rights of any human being, such as the right to a speedy and fair trial by a jury of their peers. Star Trek has hammered on this point for damn near 60 years, and people still don't seem to get it.
[Picard and Guinan are talking about the significance of the creation of multiple Datas]
Guinan: Consider that in the history of many worlds, there have always been disposable creatures. They do the dirty work. They do the work that no one else wants to do because it's too difficult or too hazardous. And an army of Datas, all disposable... You don't have to think about their welfare, you don't think about how they feel. Whole generations of disposable people.
Capt. Picard: You're talking about slavery.
Guinan: Oh, I think that's a little harsh.
Capt. Picard: I don't think that's a little harsh, I think that's the truth. But that's a truth that we have obscured behind a... comfortable, easy euphemism: 'Property'! But that's not the issue at all, is it?
Over and over again we must be reminded of what is enshrined in our constitution. How easily we revert to our primal instinct in defiance of the (eternal and never ending )effort to become compassionate, just and kind humans. Do read Robert L. Arnold on Substack. Mike is saying.
Immigrants are the least of our worries. The arrived, perverted pretenders to governing, the anti-citizens, are the domestic enemy within, to be decapitated.
Dehumanization of others is one of the defining characteristics of fascism. As you stated you’re not an advocate for open borders, here’s an interview with journalist John Washington for your consideration on that very topic…
Astounding clarity and simplicity, God I wish that Democrats could muster even half of this in their anti-maga messaging, because if they could, Trump would not be 20 points underwater on immigration, but 50-60 points. Even more if you add the following question: millions of people can't be deported without ramping up a police state infrastructure. Conservatives tell us, often correctly, that no government institution disappears once created. Are you OK with the mission creep guaranteed to come? Where do you think it stops?
Throughout history, man has always pushed to separate themselves into some sort of group. American League vs National League, Republicans vs Democrats, Christians vs Jews, thin people vs fat people, young vs old, and of course the color of skin. Commonality, Unity, Humanity seem fading towards non-existence. Instead of embracing diversity we are taught or have the proclivity for whatever reason to fear it.
The Founding Fathers, in their knowledge of the Greek literature, and in their personal brilliance, still did not identify themselves as bigots or hypocrites when they wrote "all men are created equal" while being attended to by a slave. Jefferson is given credit for the "all men" stuff.
Yet, Jefferson enslaved over 600 people during his lifetime, which contradicts his writings on freedom and equality. He inherited many slaves and acquired the rest through the natural increase of enslaved families, purchases, and his father-in-law. The enslaved people he owned, their families, and their labor were essential to his livelihood at his plantation, Monticello. Jefferson fathered at least six children with his enslaved mistress, Sally Hemings. Four of these children survived to adulthood: Beverly, Harriet, Madison, and Eston. And Jefferson and the other writers of our Declaration missed another crucial population in discussing equality--- WOMEN.
And we have another historical figure who espoused equality- John Locke. Locke espoused equality, particularly in the context of the "state of nature," arguing that all individuals are born free and equal with inherent natural rights to life, liberty, and property. He based this on the idea that no one is naturally superior to another, and these equal rights are governed by natural law before any government is formed. He used this concept of natural equality to justify the idea that legitimate government arises from a social contract based on the consent of the governed, not from a divine right of kings.
Yet, John Locke has been widely accused of hypocrisy and bigotry due to his personal involvement in the slave trade and colonial dispossession of Native Americans, which fundamentally contradicted his philosophical writings on natural rights and human equality.
The above brings into view the duplicity of what a man says and does.
I can say this about being a physician, and having cared for the homeless, the ultra-rich, the child and the adult and elder, men and women, various cultures from Asia to Africa, Europe to S. America. All received my full attention and caring. Often, the poorest patient showed more gratitude than the richest. I know, like Donne said, the loss of any man affect's me, for I am involved in mankind.
How do others that are open to difference and love the diversity of life understand the pathology of what we see playing out every day in our POTUS, SCOTUS and CONGROTUS? I made up the last otus. I know for many of you this is both inconceivable and monstruous.
We have a POTUS who whimpers about 100 countries voting for him to get the Nobel Peace Prize, while our POTUS is responsible for 400,000 deaths of Americans due to his horrendous handling of COVID-19 in the last year of his office. We have a POTUS that denied support to Ukraine prior to the Putin lnvasion and cost many lives and now Trump has the blood of thousands of Ukrainians and the trauma of children kidnapped by Putin's soldiers, plus the blood of many thousands of Palestinians who died due to our supplying Netanyahu with weapons of death and destruction. Trump should get the Hitler Award, not the Nobel.
Forget this quote: "What we've got here is failure to communicate" — Strother Martin & Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke (1967)
It is no longer of key importance. It should be replaced with: "What we have seen folks, is how our life gets fucked up when we do not properly vet running for political office."
You, We, must go back to the root causes. For sure, what we are seeing with Trump et al is a reflection of terrible parenting and likely growing up in a milieu of bigotry and "what's in it for me." We cannot undo that with those who are adults. But for God's sake, we the people should not be so blasé about who we elect to offices that govern us. What we have now is due to our own apathy, and/or ignorance, coupled with a mainstream media that did not perform due diligence in reporting the derelictions all along Trump's journey. If you have followed commentators on stations like CNN, MSNOW, BBC, etc, you have noted that slow but steady change from normalization to rationalization and then to identify Trump for what he is. Still, normalization and rationalization continues in many discussions about Trump.
Those who read this forum should be at a level asking: how do we get this devil out of our lives? Can we restore the government to where there is a separation of powers because currently, ours is a government of fascists- and we are at least halfway to full, total and overt fascism. How did our Congress allow one Constitutional Violation after another and do nothing to stop this tyrant? How did the SCOTUS allow for judgments that further empowered a dictator-fascist, megalomaniac? And if we can sort this out and fix this horrendous situation, what exactly did the Biden administration do that is true to the criticism of Trump et al. Did 20,000,000 immigrants come into this country within 4 years? What are the facts?
This is what I want to know. I am way beyond understanding the rights of all peoples regarding due process, and other issues of freedom and justice.
Well said. I'd be interested to hear your views on Aristotle's position that a political system [polis] is a community [koinonia] of citizens [politai] with respect to their constitution [politieia]; and that, as a corollary, territorial sovereignty as we've come to know it since 1648 becomes irrelevant.
Ultimately, can we reconcile Aristotle with Westphalia; should we; and, if so, how? Apologies if this is too big a topic for a reply! Context: I'm deconstructing Orwell's characterization of democracy in his "Politics and the English Language" as "consciously dishonest", "swindles", and "perversions", and trying to escape the Orwell trap by modelling democracy as a cluster of values.
Always remember: judicial due process is a right that must, without question, be afforded to everyone, regardless of citizenship status.
Why?
Because if noncitizens lack basic due process rights, then a government can start a deportation proceeding against anyone, citizen or no, immediately claim that the person in question is not a citizen, and without due process rights the defendant has no opportunity to rebut the claim, even if the person is a citizen. In this way the government can deport anyone it likes--such as, say, domestic political enemies who are nonetheless (inconveniently) citizens.
(And, of course, this extends to any judicially mediated claim; if you can't defend yourself against a claim if you're not a citizen, then a government can make any claim it likes about you, tack on that you're not a citizen, you can't rebut, and then that government can do whatever it wants to you. Due process must exist at least insofar as the opportunity to present proof of citizenship, or it doesn't exist for anyone.)
Those who look at medicine through the same lens of enacting due process do so by invoking the concept/question: "Is it evidence-based?" The transparency that most politicians, thoughtless and hypocritically espouse, is often flagrant bullshit.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes... they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." — John Adams
" The definition of an extreme authoritarian is one who is willing blindly to assume that government accusations are true without any evidence presented or opportunity to contest those accusations." — Glenn Greenwald
What we have in the US is a POTUS, SCOTUS and CONGROTUS (Republican Congress) that flouts lies and asserts that those who oppose them are delusional. We are more than waist high in the shit of a Republican government that is off the rails, in not only due process, but freedom of the press, freedom of lawful assembly, freedom of speech + a most astounding rape of the American taxpayer with violation almost every day of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
I need to bring back Martha and the Vandellas with a new song: Screaming in the Streets; or possibly, a new version of No Where to Run.
Borders aren't real, we made them up. There is one planet and we all fucking share it. Crossing imaginary lines in the sand does not make you deserving of being tortured to death in a foreign countries gulag. Anyone who does not understand this implicitly is either evil or an idiot and I will instantly despise them either way.
'To concede this point—to accept that “illegal” means “less human”—is to engage in fascistic thinking.' To accept that anything about an individual makes them "less human" is to engage in fascistic thinking. Even the worst criminals, such as our President and his cabinet, are still human beings, and are entitled to all the rights of any human being, such as the right to a speedy and fair trial by a jury of their peers. Star Trek has hammered on this point for damn near 60 years, and people still don't seem to get it.
[Picard and Guinan are talking about the significance of the creation of multiple Datas]
Guinan: Consider that in the history of many worlds, there have always been disposable creatures. They do the dirty work. They do the work that no one else wants to do because it's too difficult or too hazardous. And an army of Datas, all disposable... You don't have to think about their welfare, you don't think about how they feel. Whole generations of disposable people.
Capt. Picard: You're talking about slavery.
Guinan: Oh, I think that's a little harsh.
Capt. Picard: I don't think that's a little harsh, I think that's the truth. But that's a truth that we have obscured behind a... comfortable, easy euphemism: 'Property'! But that's not the issue at all, is it?
Over and over again we must be reminded of what is enshrined in our constitution. How easily we revert to our primal instinct in defiance of the (eternal and never ending )effort to become compassionate, just and kind humans. Do read Robert L. Arnold on Substack. Mike is saying.
Immigrants are the least of our worries. The arrived, perverted pretenders to governing, the anti-citizens, are the domestic enemy within, to be decapitated.
Dehumanization of others is one of the defining characteristics of fascism. As you stated you’re not an advocate for open borders, here’s an interview with journalist John Washington for your consideration on that very topic…
https://www.thesunmagazine.org/articles/599-the-golden-door
Thank you so much for this, it will be shared and was heartening to hear, just knowing some of us — many os us will not abide this. 🙏
Astounding clarity and simplicity, God I wish that Democrats could muster even half of this in their anti-maga messaging, because if they could, Trump would not be 20 points underwater on immigration, but 50-60 points. Even more if you add the following question: millions of people can't be deported without ramping up a police state infrastructure. Conservatives tell us, often correctly, that no government institution disappears once created. Are you OK with the mission creep guaranteed to come? Where do you think it stops?
Throughout history, man has always pushed to separate themselves into some sort of group. American League vs National League, Republicans vs Democrats, Christians vs Jews, thin people vs fat people, young vs old, and of course the color of skin. Commonality, Unity, Humanity seem fading towards non-existence. Instead of embracing diversity we are taught or have the proclivity for whatever reason to fear it.
The Founding Fathers, in their knowledge of the Greek literature, and in their personal brilliance, still did not identify themselves as bigots or hypocrites when they wrote "all men are created equal" while being attended to by a slave. Jefferson is given credit for the "all men" stuff.
Yet, Jefferson enslaved over 600 people during his lifetime, which contradicts his writings on freedom and equality. He inherited many slaves and acquired the rest through the natural increase of enslaved families, purchases, and his father-in-law. The enslaved people he owned, their families, and their labor were essential to his livelihood at his plantation, Monticello. Jefferson fathered at least six children with his enslaved mistress, Sally Hemings. Four of these children survived to adulthood: Beverly, Harriet, Madison, and Eston. And Jefferson and the other writers of our Declaration missed another crucial population in discussing equality--- WOMEN.
And we have another historical figure who espoused equality- John Locke. Locke espoused equality, particularly in the context of the "state of nature," arguing that all individuals are born free and equal with inherent natural rights to life, liberty, and property. He based this on the idea that no one is naturally superior to another, and these equal rights are governed by natural law before any government is formed. He used this concept of natural equality to justify the idea that legitimate government arises from a social contract based on the consent of the governed, not from a divine right of kings.
Yet, John Locke has been widely accused of hypocrisy and bigotry due to his personal involvement in the slave trade and colonial dispossession of Native Americans, which fundamentally contradicted his philosophical writings on natural rights and human equality.
The above brings into view the duplicity of what a man says and does.
I can say this about being a physician, and having cared for the homeless, the ultra-rich, the child and the adult and elder, men and women, various cultures from Asia to Africa, Europe to S. America. All received my full attention and caring. Often, the poorest patient showed more gratitude than the richest. I know, like Donne said, the loss of any man affect's me, for I am involved in mankind.
How do others that are open to difference and love the diversity of life understand the pathology of what we see playing out every day in our POTUS, SCOTUS and CONGROTUS? I made up the last otus. I know for many of you this is both inconceivable and monstruous.
We have a POTUS who whimpers about 100 countries voting for him to get the Nobel Peace Prize, while our POTUS is responsible for 400,000 deaths of Americans due to his horrendous handling of COVID-19 in the last year of his office. We have a POTUS that denied support to Ukraine prior to the Putin lnvasion and cost many lives and now Trump has the blood of thousands of Ukrainians and the trauma of children kidnapped by Putin's soldiers, plus the blood of many thousands of Palestinians who died due to our supplying Netanyahu with weapons of death and destruction. Trump should get the Hitler Award, not the Nobel.
Forget this quote: "What we've got here is failure to communicate" — Strother Martin & Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke (1967)
It is no longer of key importance. It should be replaced with: "What we have seen folks, is how our life gets fucked up when we do not properly vet running for political office."
You, We, must go back to the root causes. For sure, what we are seeing with Trump et al is a reflection of terrible parenting and likely growing up in a milieu of bigotry and "what's in it for me." We cannot undo that with those who are adults. But for God's sake, we the people should not be so blasé about who we elect to offices that govern us. What we have now is due to our own apathy, and/or ignorance, coupled with a mainstream media that did not perform due diligence in reporting the derelictions all along Trump's journey. If you have followed commentators on stations like CNN, MSNOW, BBC, etc, you have noted that slow but steady change from normalization to rationalization and then to identify Trump for what he is. Still, normalization and rationalization continues in many discussions about Trump.
Those who read this forum should be at a level asking: how do we get this devil out of our lives? Can we restore the government to where there is a separation of powers because currently, ours is a government of fascists- and we are at least halfway to full, total and overt fascism. How did our Congress allow one Constitutional Violation after another and do nothing to stop this tyrant? How did the SCOTUS allow for judgments that further empowered a dictator-fascist, megalomaniac? And if we can sort this out and fix this horrendous situation, what exactly did the Biden administration do that is true to the criticism of Trump et al. Did 20,000,000 immigrants come into this country within 4 years? What are the facts?
This is what I want to know. I am way beyond understanding the rights of all peoples regarding due process, and other issues of freedom and justice.
Robert L Arnold @defiance13. A great companion to Mike’s posts.
Well said. I'd be interested to hear your views on Aristotle's position that a political system [polis] is a community [koinonia] of citizens [politai] with respect to their constitution [politieia]; and that, as a corollary, territorial sovereignty as we've come to know it since 1648 becomes irrelevant.
Ultimately, can we reconcile Aristotle with Westphalia; should we; and, if so, how? Apologies if this is too big a topic for a reply! Context: I'm deconstructing Orwell's characterization of democracy in his "Politics and the English Language" as "consciously dishonest", "swindles", and "perversions", and trying to escape the Orwell trap by modelling democracy as a cluster of values.
👏👏❤️
Excellent. Every person possesses inherent worth—because they are a human being, or if one is religious, because they are a child of God.
Hear❗️ Hear❗️
♥️🙏🏻♥️