You might eventually need different friends. This becomes very evident when one no longer pays the tribute demanded to carry on a conversation or a relationship. If you don't move on in order to have genuine conversations about the complexity, they will let you go. 90% of my family are strangers to me because they were always trying to extract some sort of tribute that they themselves adamantly refused to pay even when the facts were CLEARLY on display, one such example of this was the murder of Alex Pretti.
I got a surprise phone call from a MAGA brother who happens to be in law enforcement a few weeks ago. The conversation turned to the events in MSP which were fairly fresh. He tried to talk all around the issue to extract tribute to give his talking points an edge but I wasn't having it and shut it all down with facts. No straw men, no red herrings, no goal post moving no both sides tolerated. Frankly the conversation went a bit better after he had to admit that it absolutely WAS murder, morally reprehensible, extralegal and unprovoked by Mr. Pretti. The high-fiving afterward by CBP was the final straw.
It will probably be another two years before I hear from him again. Not because I was harsh or mean but I was uncompromising of my values and the rule of law and people with power agendas tend to not forgive that.
When the "border" is mentioned in a discussion, a gentle reminder that 47 rallied Republicans to put off a bipartisan deal because he wanted to run on the topic generally shuts them up. Using a topic that could have been improved (with cooperation) as an example of accomplishment just doesn't cut it.
You stopped an improvement because of selfish politics and now you want to take credit? No.
I also am weary of the argument predicated on Biden did this or Obama did that. That certainly doesn't move the needle. The damage that Trump is doing to the US and the world increases exponentially daily. There is nothing anyone can say that is acceptable in defense of Trump's actions. I used to attempt to have conversations with my right wing friends and family members. But I am now so disgusted with their support of trump I don't even want to talk to them.
I’m never quite sure where they stand which indicates to me that perhaps they don’t really know either. I often hear, “oh he’s not perfect and he offends people but he gets the job done.” As if “the job” exempts him from morals and principles and the laws of the land. It does not. And if we agree that he was successful at closing the border, for the moment, he has no success with ice raids and murders in MN. It’s almost like they cannot connect events together that end up causing harm. A led to B and C and caused D. No ability to connect cause and effect events together. And by murdering citizens one can disregard one event because the end result is what we wanted all along (decreases in border crossing) all the while the moral bankruptcy is smacking them in the face.
❤️🔥I have loved your mind since I first came across it on the internet. But today I disagree with you.
First of all, I’m 81, majored in Economics, and have been deeply interested in politics and international affairs for as long as I can remember.
And I am also aware that, although I have strong opinions, I am limited by the quality of the news that’s available and the complexity of economic issues and legislative shenanigans.
I am throughly convinced of my own logic but have no problem with the idea that trump can have some successes even tho I consider him a dangerous loose cannon. I would rather have the chance to have a communication with the “right” than stand my ground about totally disagreeing with nine tenths of their thinking. And, although I’m left-minded, I have found that, within the great complexity of viewpoints, there are probably a number of decisions on the left I would find fault with if I had reliable news sources to throughly understand the issues.
I think that our inability to communicate is our Achilles heel in this country. I find that the “right” is congenitally reluctant to have any communication with a differing viewpoint. I work at trying to understand where they are coming from even if I don’t agree with it. And am grateful if I can get them to acknowledge any two cents of what I have to say; and I’m not talking about agreeing with me, just acknowledging that I have the right to see things differently without being classified as a mental incompetent.
I believe the right finds our inability or unwillingness to communicate to be one of their easiest weapons to keep us divided and conquered.
Hey, if they need to hear all these stupid things in order to dump Trump, I say humor them. The important thing is to line up enough votes to throw these guys out of office.
PS, for example I am willing to agree that the border may be more secure. But I would have to say that I know little about what’s going on on the border because of the overwhelming commotion going on by ICE activities in the interior.
The “he secured the border” argument is analogous to saying that if I were to run an Abrams tank down your block, tearing up the street and sidewalks and knocking down all the trees, I should get a pass because no one will have to rake leaves next fall.
If the precondition (that the Left has 'excesses') goes without saying, then it doesn't need to be mentioned. Therefore invoking it is avoiding the subject.
You might eventually need different friends. This becomes very evident when one no longer pays the tribute demanded to carry on a conversation or a relationship. If you don't move on in order to have genuine conversations about the complexity, they will let you go. 90% of my family are strangers to me because they were always trying to extract some sort of tribute that they themselves adamantly refused to pay even when the facts were CLEARLY on display, one such example of this was the murder of Alex Pretti.
I got a surprise phone call from a MAGA brother who happens to be in law enforcement a few weeks ago. The conversation turned to the events in MSP which were fairly fresh. He tried to talk all around the issue to extract tribute to give his talking points an edge but I wasn't having it and shut it all down with facts. No straw men, no red herrings, no goal post moving no both sides tolerated. Frankly the conversation went a bit better after he had to admit that it absolutely WAS murder, morally reprehensible, extralegal and unprovoked by Mr. Pretti. The high-fiving afterward by CBP was the final straw.
It will probably be another two years before I hear from him again. Not because I was harsh or mean but I was uncompromising of my values and the rule of law and people with power agendas tend to not forgive that.
When the "border" is mentioned in a discussion, a gentle reminder that 47 rallied Republicans to put off a bipartisan deal because he wanted to run on the topic generally shuts them up. Using a topic that could have been improved (with cooperation) as an example of accomplishment just doesn't cut it.
You stopped an improvement because of selfish politics and now you want to take credit? No.
I also am weary of the argument predicated on Biden did this or Obama did that. That certainly doesn't move the needle. The damage that Trump is doing to the US and the world increases exponentially daily. There is nothing anyone can say that is acceptable in defense of Trump's actions. I used to attempt to have conversations with my right wing friends and family members. But I am now so disgusted with their support of trump I don't even want to talk to them.
I’m never quite sure where they stand which indicates to me that perhaps they don’t really know either. I often hear, “oh he’s not perfect and he offends people but he gets the job done.” As if “the job” exempts him from morals and principles and the laws of the land. It does not. And if we agree that he was successful at closing the border, for the moment, he has no success with ice raids and murders in MN. It’s almost like they cannot connect events together that end up causing harm. A led to B and C and caused D. No ability to connect cause and effect events together. And by murdering citizens one can disregard one event because the end result is what we wanted all along (decreases in border crossing) all the while the moral bankruptcy is smacking them in the face.
❤️🔥I have loved your mind since I first came across it on the internet. But today I disagree with you.
First of all, I’m 81, majored in Economics, and have been deeply interested in politics and international affairs for as long as I can remember.
And I am also aware that, although I have strong opinions, I am limited by the quality of the news that’s available and the complexity of economic issues and legislative shenanigans.
I am throughly convinced of my own logic but have no problem with the idea that trump can have some successes even tho I consider him a dangerous loose cannon. I would rather have the chance to have a communication with the “right” than stand my ground about totally disagreeing with nine tenths of their thinking. And, although I’m left-minded, I have found that, within the great complexity of viewpoints, there are probably a number of decisions on the left I would find fault with if I had reliable news sources to throughly understand the issues.
I think that our inability to communicate is our Achilles heel in this country. I find that the “right” is congenitally reluctant to have any communication with a differing viewpoint. I work at trying to understand where they are coming from even if I don’t agree with it. And am grateful if I can get them to acknowledge any two cents of what I have to say; and I’m not talking about agreeing with me, just acknowledging that I have the right to see things differently without being classified as a mental incompetent.
I believe the right finds our inability or unwillingness to communicate to be one of their easiest weapons to keep us divided and conquered.
Hey, if they need to hear all these stupid things in order to dump Trump, I say humor them. The important thing is to line up enough votes to throw these guys out of office.
PS, for example I am willing to agree that the border may be more secure. But I would have to say that I know little about what’s going on on the border because of the overwhelming commotion going on by ICE activities in the interior.
It's as if satisfying the preconditions sets up the One True Scotsman Fallacy.
I also will not pay tribute to crazy prior to speaking truth. Thank you for an excellent synopsis.
Yeah.
I’m on “the other team”, although I’d call it 90% of us—the “not crazy” or “not in on the criminal grift”.
That’s how oligarchs deal with climate change and overpopulation—starve us all, while they shelter in some redoubt.
The “he secured the border” argument is analogous to saying that if I were to run an Abrams tank down your block, tearing up the street and sidewalks and knocking down all the trees, I should get a pass because no one will have to rake leaves next fall.
If the precondition (that the Left has 'excesses') goes without saying, then it doesn't need to be mentioned. Therefore invoking it is avoiding the subject.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It's just a repackaged ad hominem attack, a way to avoid hearing the message because the messenger is unpalatable.