I am going to repeat what I said on Barry Garner's Substack, which applies here.
"The silence in the room of Top Brass spoke loudly. Their oath signed in blood is to the nation and the Constitution. They have a proud legacy of sacrifice and service to a calling beyond petty politics. Their honor has been deeply disrespected, and Trump has lost any chance of Military cooperation in his authoritarian agenda. The President may hold the nuclear "keys", but the Military possesses the weapons. Neither Trump nor Hegseth is worthy of command, and that message was personally delivered to the leadership of all branches of the Military.
This was the response I was praying for. Obviously, deranged Trump and his MAGA minions will not respect the Constitution, the rule of law, and the moral values of this once proud nation. They are deliberately provoking violence domestically, and eventually, the shooting will begin. This will be the signal for the coup necessary to "protect the nation against domestic foes" oath becomes a mandate for action. Trump's dangerous, dysfunctional government will be disbanded, and martial law will be enacted until a new civilian government can be formed.
Yes, this is shocking, but these are the times we have inherited. The Republic is dead, long live the Republic..."
Respectfully - and otherwise in agreement, the silence was the top brass doing their job. They cannot show favor or dissent, in their positions to set the example down the ladder.
Rank-and-file enlisteds, however, have made their dissent known:
Civilians have made their dissent known in court as well.
“There were indeed protests in Los Angeles, and some individuals engaged in violence,” wrote Charles Breyer, the judge overseeing the trial. “Yet there was no rebellion, nor was civilian law enforcement unable to respond to the protests and enforce the law.”
The judge blocked the Trump administration from using the military to engage in “arrests, apprehensions, searches, seizures, security patrols, traffic control, crowd control, riot control, evidence collection, interrogation, or acting as informants, unless and until” the administration presents valid constitutional or legal exceptions, Breyer wrote.” https://calmatters.org/justice/2025/09/trump-national-guard-posse-comitatus/
There are also lawsuits filed in Oregon and, I imagine, Illinois as well blocking the use of the military for domestic police operations. The irony of it all is Trump’s ICE private police force has a bigger budget than the US Marine Corps!
Sadly I too disagree. I'd like to think the armed forces will revolt against the tyrant, I wish they would, but history and human nature says nope. They'll tow the line, any thinking soldiers with an ounce of respect and decency, the kind of people who'd question dumb orders, will either quit or be fired without benefits.
Oh, they will “tow the line” until the line is crossed which is increasingly likely as Trump becomes more delusional. He has declared war on all Americans who oppose him and actively provoking violence as a trigger for full authoritarian control of government. The cold silence of the commanders showed us that will not happen.
I'd like to think so. I HOPE so. But history, psychology, and human nature say otherwise. When you threaten military officers’ careers, that's a hard pill to swallow. We see people in ordinary corporate environments go along with Trump to keep their jobs. The military fosters bonds civvies can never understand. It's an entire way of life; you're told where to be, how to be, what to do etc. And many who serve have earned their medals the hard way, they weren't handed out for getting their paperwork in on time. To be stripped of all that is a lot harder than getting fired from a regular job. And it's not like getting fired from a regular job is easy when it puts food on your table and a roof over your kids' heads. As I said, if history is anything to go by, I think they'll "tow the line". The silence of the top brass at that awful session was just military discipline, and beneath that silence you could hear a lot of them mentally booking their gym sessions and regulation haircuts. It's Trump's army now boy.
The vibe I see from the retired military brass is certainly NOT capitulation. One does not reach the top military ranks by being easily intimidated. These guys deal with tyrants and petty dictators every day and they know posers when they see them. No, when the shooting starts they already have the battle plans ready to restore order and protect the nation from domestic terrorism. Trump may hold the title of commander in chief, but these are the folks who really make things happen. Trump is simply a politician and not a very good one.
“Old soldiers never die.” The active duty military leaders had to “suck it up” during that disgraceful debacle, but retired military veterans , like me, can freely speak their minds. Urging top commanders to resign only empowers the opposition. There are also tight bonds between active duty and retired commanders.
When the shooting starts, they will be ready to do their duty to protect the nation from the domestic threat of the lawless Trump administration. The military is the final adult in the room, and after that fiasco, the commanders have full threat confirmation. They will be ready and know their mission.
We gave our power to the wrong people years ago. The dems let the Republicans gerrymander their way through the country for several decades. The dems made money from campaign contributions and, it seems to me, did the barest minimum to stay in power while changing the system as little as possible.
I hope those younger and stronger have the courage and the vision to beat these bastards back.
If not, people will have to wait for them to implode. People are going to suffer and die that wouldn't otherwise.
These greedy, fascist bullies aren't going to stop until they are stopped, or until they break down.
You sound discouraged, but I think you are right. I am so disgusted with the Democrats I can’t stand it. Locally, we have never been strong, but there is no leader nationally at all. It wouldn’t take much, would it? Just someone with a plan and gumption? There’s a new party trying to form called the Working Families Party. They are running under the Democrats in most places. Mamdani is one (why they don’t like him?) and the new rep from AZ is also (why they aren’t making noise to seat her?). It’s time for something new if the old breaks. The Democrats are broken. The Republican Party is gone and doesn’t bear discussion.
Can't help thinking that, maybe, this is the reason the 14th Amendment included the insurrection/disqualification clause.
A Republicans went from Southern Strategy to Rural strategy to outright culture war, accompanied by violent coup, watching Republicans make their constituents suffer, and use corporate media to blame it on "city-folks" culture, has been absolutely torturous.
This is exactly why the US Constitution disqualifies oath-breaking insurrectionists. Anyone who would take an oath and then break it cannot be trusted to keep that oath again later.
The country we all grew up in is dead and the sooner we realize it the better. Now is the time to start thinking of what we do to rebuild better once this scourge is over. The first step is enforceable codes of conduct and laws on all of this corruption. The people need to all say enough is enough.
It no longer matters to me who is in charge down south; Americans proved that they will put a man in charge who promptly threatened to terminate my country's sovereignty and has unrepentantly continued to do so (while gaslighting us with an "ambassador" who has said repeatedly that such matters are no longer relevant only to be contradicted by his boss days later while bemoaning anti-American sentiment on this side of the border, a border which his boss has stated he wishes to erase; it would be less offensive for him to straightforwardly threaten to nuke Parliament Hill: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2025/09/us-ambassador-threatens-to-tariff-annex-and-bomb-canada-if-anti-american-sentiment-doesnt-improve/ ). No amount of domestic political change there can ever make me trust the United States, or Americans generally, again, unless my country has an absolute veto over all governmental policy decisions in the United States.
I'm aware. My point in linking it was to say that the parody of Hoekstra's remarks presented by The Beaverton is (in my view) less offensive than his actual remarks.
Actually, while I'm here, one of the things that disgusted me most, was Hegseth telling military leaders to actively ignore the rules of engagement. He's literally telling them to frag the ville, napalm the civilians, shoot first and there will be no questions. Combined with the idea that they're waging war on US citizens, that's pretty scary. WTF America. WTF.
As an outside observer, my "I've seen enough" moment was when Trump spoke at the UN a few days ago. Castigating former allies, whose citizens died in the mud alongside each other in two world wars. Rambling undiplomatically and incoherently in front of an international audience. Waging war on an escalator and a teleprompter his own people were controlling. Like a spoilt 8 year old, repeating several totally false claims then demanding the world's highest peace prize. Then shilling his own merch while selling himself as "good at that kind of stuff". Why didn't everyone walk out of THAT shit-show? This latest debacle is beyond words. Did you see the number or bald white heads? It was clear anyone who doesn't want to be part of his white supremest plan is out. The King wants full allegiance from non-thinking stormtroopers to carry out his war on democracy. The fact he announces it so publicly... America... I just don't know what to say. I feel so sorry for you, but at the same time, US citizens voted for this lunatic, and continue to support him.
A proper campaign on military professionalism is due. It obviously is not possible from remaining personnel, but there are millions of vets out there who should band together and insist that professionalism would not only protect national security but necessarily invoke the 25th Amendment. The nation has a proud history of service to the Constitution and a refraining from politics, but the times call for the former to stand in for the latter
Telling your top military leadership to actively ignore the rules of engagement? Not professional. An ex TV personality with zero service experience policing moustaches and calling it discipline? Not professional. Firing intelligent, experienced soldiers without benefits, replacing competency with fealty? Not professional. America's military are being turned into unthinking stormtroopers, pledging unwavering allegiance to a lunatic authoritarian waging war on democracy. Well, I guess as long as they look properly white supremest with regulation buzzcuts, it's all good.
This is such a beautiful passage that I wanted to highlight it here:
>The time for moderate bipartisan solutions has passed. I want someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to win. Not some mealy-mouthed centrist who won’t have the guts to pursue justice on behalf of American dignity against those who betrayed it for personal gain. I want CEOs who paid tribute to this regime to go to jail for paying bribes. I want companies that provided services to this regime that trampled on human rights to be trust-busted.
If, as things seem, assuming we have free and fair elections in 2026, I also want our House (and Senate?) to hold hearings to expose what these Quislings have done. This Supreme Court has indemnified Trump from being held accountable, at least until it's drastically reformed (retroactive term limits, circuit court judge lottery for presiding over SC decisions, expanding the SC, enforceable ethics rules incl. automatic removal for questionable non-recusals & graft, etc.). But only him. His enablers and apparatchiks are not.
In 2028, if things go well electorally, let's demand accountability and *real* punishment to the major corporations who abandoned our democracy, the Trump administration officials who committed prosecutable actions while in office, and the end of the "Let’s look forward, not backward” mantra that allowed prior anti-democratic administrations to escape judgement.
I'd also like to see the next Democrat President push Congress to explicitly roll back, and make illegal, the wide variety of violated norms that gave Trump – or rather, the Project 2025 folks – the openings he exploited. A President weakening executive powers prior administrations seized but really shouldn't ever have would be both historic and required.
Not for vengeance, but for building a better America.
I remember the 2020 Democratic Presidential nominating contest where (when a Sanders victory seemed inevitable for a time) a supporter of his opined that the most important thing Sanders could do as President was not implementing the economic reforms that were the base of his appeal but rather pushing Congress to pass laws repealing all the authority that had been delegated to the executive for decades.
Even in Trump's first term Democratic members of Congress were happy to vote to expand executive authority, such as https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/139/all-actions (including, among others, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and Chuck Schumer all voting in favour at various stages; Hakeem Jeffries, however, did vote against).
I am going to repeat what I said on Barry Garner's Substack, which applies here.
"The silence in the room of Top Brass spoke loudly. Their oath signed in blood is to the nation and the Constitution. They have a proud legacy of sacrifice and service to a calling beyond petty politics. Their honor has been deeply disrespected, and Trump has lost any chance of Military cooperation in his authoritarian agenda. The President may hold the nuclear "keys", but the Military possesses the weapons. Neither Trump nor Hegseth is worthy of command, and that message was personally delivered to the leadership of all branches of the Military.
This was the response I was praying for. Obviously, deranged Trump and his MAGA minions will not respect the Constitution, the rule of law, and the moral values of this once proud nation. They are deliberately provoking violence domestically, and eventually, the shooting will begin. This will be the signal for the coup necessary to "protect the nation against domestic foes" oath becomes a mandate for action. Trump's dangerous, dysfunctional government will be disbanded, and martial law will be enacted until a new civilian government can be formed.
Yes, this is shocking, but these are the times we have inherited. The Republic is dead, long live the Republic..."
Respectfully - and otherwise in agreement, the silence was the top brass doing their job. They cannot show favor or dissent, in their positions to set the example down the ladder.
Rank-and-file enlisteds, however, have made their dissent known:
https://bit.ly/NYT-good-trouble-NG
https://bit.ly/MJ-notmylandscaping-NG
We can expect that some - or perhaps most - of their superior officers felt privately proud of their commitment to our Constitution.
Civilians have made their dissent known in court as well.
“There were indeed protests in Los Angeles, and some individuals engaged in violence,” wrote Charles Breyer, the judge overseeing the trial. “Yet there was no rebellion, nor was civilian law enforcement unable to respond to the protests and enforce the law.”
The judge blocked the Trump administration from using the military to engage in “arrests, apprehensions, searches, seizures, security patrols, traffic control, crowd control, riot control, evidence collection, interrogation, or acting as informants, unless and until” the administration presents valid constitutional or legal exceptions, Breyer wrote.” https://calmatters.org/justice/2025/09/trump-national-guard-posse-comitatus/
There are also lawsuits filed in Oregon and, I imagine, Illinois as well blocking the use of the military for domestic police operations. The irony of it all is Trump’s ICE private police force has a bigger budget than the US Marine Corps!
I really, really hope you are right. You could tell when Hegseth landed his final line he expected a cheer, or clapping, or SOMETHING.
Sadly I too disagree. I'd like to think the armed forces will revolt against the tyrant, I wish they would, but history and human nature says nope. They'll tow the line, any thinking soldiers with an ounce of respect and decency, the kind of people who'd question dumb orders, will either quit or be fired without benefits.
Oh, they will “tow the line” until the line is crossed which is increasingly likely as Trump becomes more delusional. He has declared war on all Americans who oppose him and actively provoking violence as a trigger for full authoritarian control of government. The cold silence of the commanders showed us that will not happen.
I'd like to think so. I HOPE so. But history, psychology, and human nature say otherwise. When you threaten military officers’ careers, that's a hard pill to swallow. We see people in ordinary corporate environments go along with Trump to keep their jobs. The military fosters bonds civvies can never understand. It's an entire way of life; you're told where to be, how to be, what to do etc. And many who serve have earned their medals the hard way, they weren't handed out for getting their paperwork in on time. To be stripped of all that is a lot harder than getting fired from a regular job. And it's not like getting fired from a regular job is easy when it puts food on your table and a roof over your kids' heads. As I said, if history is anything to go by, I think they'll "tow the line". The silence of the top brass at that awful session was just military discipline, and beneath that silence you could hear a lot of them mentally booking their gym sessions and regulation haircuts. It's Trump's army now boy.
The vibe I see from the retired military brass is certainly NOT capitulation. One does not reach the top military ranks by being easily intimidated. These guys deal with tyrants and petty dictators every day and they know posers when they see them. No, when the shooting starts they already have the battle plans ready to restore order and protect the nation from domestic terrorism. Trump may hold the title of commander in chief, but these are the folks who really make things happen. Trump is simply a politician and not a very good one.
“Old soldiers never die.” The active duty military leaders had to “suck it up” during that disgraceful debacle, but retired military veterans , like me, can freely speak their minds. Urging top commanders to resign only empowers the opposition. There are also tight bonds between active duty and retired commanders.
When the shooting starts, they will be ready to do their duty to protect the nation from the domestic threat of the lawless Trump administration. The military is the final adult in the room, and after that fiasco, the commanders have full threat confirmation. They will be ready and know their mission.
I agree with you.
They keep breaking the country.
No one is stopping them.
We gave our power to the wrong people years ago. The dems let the Republicans gerrymander their way through the country for several decades. The dems made money from campaign contributions and, it seems to me, did the barest minimum to stay in power while changing the system as little as possible.
I hope those younger and stronger have the courage and the vision to beat these bastards back.
If not, people will have to wait for them to implode. People are going to suffer and die that wouldn't otherwise.
These greedy, fascist bullies aren't going to stop until they are stopped, or until they break down.
You sound discouraged, but I think you are right. I am so disgusted with the Democrats I can’t stand it. Locally, we have never been strong, but there is no leader nationally at all. It wouldn’t take much, would it? Just someone with a plan and gumption? There’s a new party trying to form called the Working Families Party. They are running under the Democrats in most places. Mamdani is one (why they don’t like him?) and the new rep from AZ is also (why they aren’t making noise to seat her?). It’s time for something new if the old breaks. The Democrats are broken. The Republican Party is gone and doesn’t bear discussion.
And the majority of Americans have slouched towards Bethlehem.
Can't help thinking that, maybe, this is the reason the 14th Amendment included the insurrection/disqualification clause.
A Republicans went from Southern Strategy to Rural strategy to outright culture war, accompanied by violent coup, watching Republicans make their constituents suffer, and use corporate media to blame it on "city-folks" culture, has been absolutely torturous.
This is exactly why the US Constitution disqualifies oath-breaking insurrectionists. Anyone who would take an oath and then break it cannot be trusted to keep that oath again later.
The country we all grew up in is dead and the sooner we realize it the better. Now is the time to start thinking of what we do to rebuild better once this scourge is over. The first step is enforceable codes of conduct and laws on all of this corruption. The people need to all say enough is enough.
"I want someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to win."
I want a Dayton Agreement-style arrangement so that the US can never credibly threaten to invade and conquer its neighbours again. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-51st-state-again-1.7647268
It no longer matters to me who is in charge down south; Americans proved that they will put a man in charge who promptly threatened to terminate my country's sovereignty and has unrepentantly continued to do so (while gaslighting us with an "ambassador" who has said repeatedly that such matters are no longer relevant only to be contradicted by his boss days later while bemoaning anti-American sentiment on this side of the border, a border which his boss has stated he wishes to erase; it would be less offensive for him to straightforwardly threaten to nuke Parliament Hill: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2025/09/us-ambassador-threatens-to-tariff-annex-and-bomb-canada-if-anti-american-sentiment-doesnt-improve/ ). No amount of domestic political change there can ever make me trust the United States, or Americans generally, again, unless my country has an absolute veto over all governmental policy decisions in the United States.
I'm aware. My point in linking it was to say that the parody of Hoekstra's remarks presented by The Beaverton is (in my view) less offensive than his actual remarks.
Actually, while I'm here, one of the things that disgusted me most, was Hegseth telling military leaders to actively ignore the rules of engagement. He's literally telling them to frag the ville, napalm the civilians, shoot first and there will be no questions. Combined with the idea that they're waging war on US citizens, that's pretty scary. WTF America. WTF.
I wish I didn’t agree with you
BRAVO !!!! This came from your heart and mind and rang clear as a bell.
Hear, hear, Mike. Heartbreaking
It all rings true except the last bit about the middle being bought. I would tend to say they were robbed, swueezed
As an outside observer, my "I've seen enough" moment was when Trump spoke at the UN a few days ago. Castigating former allies, whose citizens died in the mud alongside each other in two world wars. Rambling undiplomatically and incoherently in front of an international audience. Waging war on an escalator and a teleprompter his own people were controlling. Like a spoilt 8 year old, repeating several totally false claims then demanding the world's highest peace prize. Then shilling his own merch while selling himself as "good at that kind of stuff". Why didn't everyone walk out of THAT shit-show? This latest debacle is beyond words. Did you see the number or bald white heads? It was clear anyone who doesn't want to be part of his white supremest plan is out. The King wants full allegiance from non-thinking stormtroopers to carry out his war on democracy. The fact he announces it so publicly... America... I just don't know what to say. I feel so sorry for you, but at the same time, US citizens voted for this lunatic, and continue to support him.
A proper campaign on military professionalism is due. It obviously is not possible from remaining personnel, but there are millions of vets out there who should band together and insist that professionalism would not only protect national security but necessarily invoke the 25th Amendment. The nation has a proud history of service to the Constitution and a refraining from politics, but the times call for the former to stand in for the latter
Telling your top military leadership to actively ignore the rules of engagement? Not professional. An ex TV personality with zero service experience policing moustaches and calling it discipline? Not professional. Firing intelligent, experienced soldiers without benefits, replacing competency with fealty? Not professional. America's military are being turned into unthinking stormtroopers, pledging unwavering allegiance to a lunatic authoritarian waging war on democracy. Well, I guess as long as they look properly white supremest with regulation buzzcuts, it's all good.
This is such a beautiful passage that I wanted to highlight it here:
>The time for moderate bipartisan solutions has passed. I want someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to win. Not some mealy-mouthed centrist who won’t have the guts to pursue justice on behalf of American dignity against those who betrayed it for personal gain. I want CEOs who paid tribute to this regime to go to jail for paying bribes. I want companies that provided services to this regime that trampled on human rights to be trust-busted.
If, as things seem, assuming we have free and fair elections in 2026, I also want our House (and Senate?) to hold hearings to expose what these Quislings have done. This Supreme Court has indemnified Trump from being held accountable, at least until it's drastically reformed (retroactive term limits, circuit court judge lottery for presiding over SC decisions, expanding the SC, enforceable ethics rules incl. automatic removal for questionable non-recusals & graft, etc.). But only him. His enablers and apparatchiks are not.
In 2028, if things go well electorally, let's demand accountability and *real* punishment to the major corporations who abandoned our democracy, the Trump administration officials who committed prosecutable actions while in office, and the end of the "Let’s look forward, not backward” mantra that allowed prior anti-democratic administrations to escape judgement.
I'd also like to see the next Democrat President push Congress to explicitly roll back, and make illegal, the wide variety of violated norms that gave Trump – or rather, the Project 2025 folks – the openings he exploited. A President weakening executive powers prior administrations seized but really shouldn't ever have would be both historic and required.
Not for vengeance, but for building a better America.
I remember the 2020 Democratic Presidential nominating contest where (when a Sanders victory seemed inevitable for a time) a supporter of his opined that the most important thing Sanders could do as President was not implementing the economic reforms that were the base of his appeal but rather pushing Congress to pass laws repealing all the authority that had been delegated to the executive for decades.
Even in Trump's first term Democratic members of Congress were happy to vote to expand executive authority, such as https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/139/all-actions (including, among others, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and Chuck Schumer all voting in favour at various stages; Hakeem Jeffries, however, did vote against).
Nothing can take away dignity. Nothing. We have to keep our heads up.
Human rights are inalienable rights.
Force can do many things, but no one can actually force us to surrender our dignity: we can only do that when we surrender ourselves.
Strong words. Strong silence.